this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Not sure who you think The Left™ is but we're mostly angry about him supporting genocide. I guess because he did so those good things we should just ignore that?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I never really got informed on the whole situation. Do you have a good snyopsys of it?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Israel indiscriminately bombed 80% of homes in Gaza as well as hospitals and schools where people were seeking refuge, killing upwards of 24,000 people, 12,000 of which were children. The casualties used to be counted by the hospitals but after Israel bombed and destroyed many of them and put the others out of order, there is no mechanism for the casualties to be counted, so hundreds are dying and no one is able to keep track. The official numbers were based off the bodies that reached the hospitals so they are missing all of those who couldn't be recovered from under the rubble, which are a large number because people recovering victims are doing it barehanded with no tools or vehicles. Israel cut off water, food, and medical aid from reaching Gaza. People have died from starvation, illness, and are being forced to ration water 2 liters a person per day for bathing, drinking, and washing meaning there is risk of death from dehydration.

The United States provided Israel with unlimited bombs in order to conduct this genocide. The US also provided direct military support by stationing its aircraft carrier near gaza in the Mediterranean in order to ward off any intervention against the genocide. Joe Biden bypassed congress in order to provide Israel the weapons and funding, not to mislead you that congress would have done anything differently, the entire United States government is genocidal.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is there any back and forth or has it been one sided?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Inside the Gaza strip Hamas's Al Qassam brigade has been engaging the invading Israeli military with small arms, mortars, and rocket launchers. The numbers of Israeli military casualties are not known because Israel censors them. Early on in the genocide Hamas offered to release its prisoners in exchange for a permanent ceasefire but Israel refused. Israel opted to continue its genocide, recovering none of its prisoners. In fact the Israeli military killed 5 of their own hostages. 3 were shot while waving a white flag in the street. 2 were killed in airstrikes.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Additionally, the initial civilian casualties on the Israeli side were also largely self-inflicted due to their indiscriminate use of force:

https://popularresistance.org/how-israeli-forces-trapped-and-killed-ravers-at-the-nova-festival/

A major reason Hamas launched the Al-Aqsa Flood operation was to take Israeli captives that could be exchanged for the thousands of Palestinians held captive in Israeli prisons. But Israeli forces were determined to prevent Hamas from taking captives back to Gaza, even if this meant killing the captured civilians.

An investigation of Israel’s long-controversial Hannibal Directive concludes that “from the point of view of the army, a dead soldier is better than a captive soldier who himself suffers and forces the state to release thousands of captives in order to obtain his release.”

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Yes, Israeli eye witness testimonies point to the Israeli military shelling homes in the be'eri settlement with tank fire, firing onto festival goers from helicopters, and shooting at Al Qassam operators with Israeli civilians in the way. Israel confirmed that 200 of the 400 burnt bodies found were not israeli, meaning that israel bombed both Al Qassam operators and 200 of their own civilians during the operation, killing them and burning their bodies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So from this perspective, Trump is a better alternative because he will continue the genocide while not having any of the benefits listed above.

Got it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We should be expecting better from Biden. We should be critical when he does evil things. He is definitely the superior candidate over Trump, but to blindly just accept the atrocities that he's contributed to is an insane position to take.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I don't think most people voting for Biden instead of Trump are just blindly accepting what he's doing. I think they don't want a repeat of the social and political events of 2016.

Quite frankly, this is where we are right now. We get a dictator party who will do everything they can to prevent people from voting and certain demographics from holding office, who likely will continue the exact same situation we are already in if not make things worse, and has absolutely no regard for our future by lifting pretty much any restrictions in place for companies. Among a litany of other things.

What doesn't make sense to me is all the people being critical of Biden for his response as if literally any presidential option in the same position wouldn't be doing the same thing. The events happening likely would be the same whether we had Trump or Biden for 2020. So to me the insane position to take seems to be letting perfect be the enemy of progress.

To be clear: I wish we had an alternative. I wish the DNC would not choose Biden, I wish that we had a viable candidate who actually held the values that you and I likely share. I am also extremely critical of Biden's stance on this and the weaker follow throughs from other campaign promises, and yet I understand that his candidacy is what will allow younger politicians to actually get things done. We aren't voting for Biden because he's status quo or supports war, we vote for him for chance of us being able to hold political positions so that we can make a future.

I have heavy doubts that a Trump presidency paves that path. I have heavy doubts that a 3rd party candidate doesn't split a vote (that goes for both candidates). And I have heavy doubts that most people are blindly accepting Biden's response to Israel, it seems most are actually quite upset just like we were with Obama and the drone strikes.

The issue is that we have to deal with reality. Is it turning a blind eye? Or is it recognizing that it likely would be happening regardless and thus the focus should be on what we gain as a country from the president. Say that Trump won in 2020, does anyone think we wouldn't be in the exact same situation we're in now, but with Trumps advisory committee? Does anyone genuinely think that the bombing of Gaza would have somehow been avoided?

No, of course not because that's as insane as thinking that Biden would do anything different towards our historical political ally. It's the same as thinking that Mitt Romney wouldn't have done the same drone strikes Obama did.

I like to think of the U.S. as being on the sea, when we have a set course it doesn't matter if we begin stopping, we're on water so we will continue down that course for a short while. Each presidency historically has 2-3 years of recovery from the previous office, by the end of the 3rd year is usually when you see the current presidency policy changes affecting things. That was the case for Bush's war, the case for Obama's war, the case for Trump's operation in Syria, Somalia, and Yemen. And it's the case now for Biden with Russia and Israel - all of these were events happening prior to their presidency that they needed to make decisions on during.

So the way I see it, each election is the opportunity to set the next 2-3 years course towards something positive. Yes, Biden's response to these events is abysmal. The course we're set on is exponentially better.

Trump's response to these events likely would be just as bad, if not worse. The course we get set on as a country is about as anti-humanitarian as you can get. You're right, Trump is exponentially worse than Biden. So why even give him the time of day - why even have the notion of a chance that he could even possibly be an alternative to Biden?

That's what seems insane.