this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2024
20 points (85.7% liked)
Israel and Palestine Politics Discussion
331 readers
5 users here now
The sole purpose of this community is to discuss Israeli and Palestinian issues. It is not the place for hurling insults, rehashing grudges, or making up history. Any conversation that veers into the "if only your people had" realm will be deleted or locked right away. I started this community in the potentially fruitless hope that we may have a civil conversation about this issue.
Rules:
- References to historical events must include a reputable source. The definition of reputable is up to the mods. Keep that in mind.
- Articles from reputable sources only.
- No name-calling. That's what DMs are for. /s
- Keep it in English. If I don't understand the word, it gets removed. Obvious exceptions would be the use of proper names and references. For example, "wadi" when used to refer to a place is acceptable.
- Discussions that are heading into the probability of becoming a flame war will be locked.
- Repeat offenders will be forced to find another community.
- Anti-Zionism is ok. Anti-Semitism is not.
- Whataboutism is for toddlers. Try to grow up.
- Posting articles about current events is encouraged. Posting the same story from 20 different sources is not.
- Posting an article purely for the purpose of saying "Look what monsters they are" is discouraged unless it can generate an honest discussion. This is probably the most difficult rule to follow.
- No calling anyone a terrorist.
- No YouTube links. Some of us can read.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Still waiting for you to cite sources outside your own opinion.
In the meantime, let's begin here, "boycotting and moral appeals are acceptable resistance to Klein".
Yes for reasons that she makes clear in the article, but she also writes "So many people have been doing more than ever before: blocking arms shipments, occupying seats of government demanding a ceasefire, joining mass protests, telling the truth, however difficult. The combination of these actions may well have contributed to the most significant development in the history of BDS: South Africa’s application to the international court of justice (ICJ) in The Hague accusing Israel of committing genocide and calling for provisional measures to stop its attack on Gaza."
So obviously she is not opposed to direct action because she rights that it may have contributed to South Africa's application at the ICJ. If you have instances of her opposing direct action I'd like to see them.
What exactly do you mean by "approaching the issue of US aid properly"
She writes "It still wasn’t enough to strip Israel of its impunity, which continued to be protected by the US’s reliable UN veto, plus the steady flow of arms. More corrosive than the lack of international sanctions have been the rewards: in recent years, alongside all of this lawlessness, Washington has recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and then moved its embassy there. It also brokered the so-called Abraham accords, which ushered in lucrative normalization agreements between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco. It was Donald Trump who began showering Israel with these latest, long-sought-after gifts, but the process carried on seamlessly under Joe Biden."
What more would you like her to say on the subject? What do you think she should have included that would have convinced US lawmakers to end the special relationship with Israel?
???? The insanity of acting like we all just have to make the right statements to solve this. I'm talking about the way she frames the genocide and how people who take up this framing lack a solution.
Literally cursory mention of steady flow of arms is enough for you?? That could mean guns and vests lmao. This article would have been lame in October. It may as well be 20 years old.
Sure I'll write a full length response this evening since you clearly see no problem with someone decrying actual military responses to this horror as war crimes of their own and not putting too fine a point on the babies Israel is disintegrating daily.
Anyone treating this as a normal war is useless. You've all done less than nothing, you've tried to delegitimize the only actual direct action which has harmed Israel's economy.
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. She has advocated for direct action and she has advocated for BDS. What other nonviolent tactics would you have her list?
Everyone even moderately familiar with this issue understands that Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid and that the US has always provided political cover internationally.
Do you think she should have to mention that in every single article in order to pass your purity test?
Nonviolent protests and just boycotting is extremely anemic when you also continue to support the narrative framing abt Hamas atrocities that is used to continue the genocide & support the existence of the rogue nuclear state that perpetrates them.
Saying "yes you're right but please be merciful" impresses you because you love rhetoric. Screw you!
You skipped over everything else about the content of that aid and how it is used. So did she. She just acknowledges it and moves on as if it's barely important.
Okay keep doing this bazinga shit if you want I will just come back tonight with an essay
Purity test lmao. Not even. I'm just clarifying what she means to you.