Israel and Palestine Politics Discussion

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The sole purpose of this community is to discuss Israeli and Palestinian issues. It is not the place for hurling insults, rehashing grudges, or making up history. Any conversation that veers into the "if only your people had" realm will be deleted or locked right away. I started this community in the potentially fruitless hope that we may have a civil conversation about this issue.

Rules:

  1. References to historical events must include a reputable source. The definition of reputable is up to the mods. Keep that in mind.
  2. Articles from reputable sources only.
  3. No name-calling. That's what DMs are for. /s
  4. Keep it in English. If I don't understand the word, it gets removed. Obvious exceptions would be the use of proper names and references. For example, "wadi" when used to refer to a place is acceptable.
  5. Discussions that are heading into the probability of becoming a flame war will be locked.
  6. Repeat offenders will be forced to find another community.
  7. Anti-Zionism is ok. Anti-Semitism is not.
  8. Whataboutism is for toddlers. Try to grow up.
  9. Posting articles about current events is encouraged. Posting the same story from 20 different sources is not.
  10. Posting an article purely for the purpose of saying "Look what monsters they are" is discouraged unless it can generate an honest discussion. This is probably the most difficult rule to follow.
  11. No calling anyone a terrorist.
  12. No YouTube links. Some of us can read.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
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I’ve yearned for a venue where we could speak openly about what’s happening in one of the world’s most contentious regions. My background is German, so you can probably anticipate where the topic ends up when I bring up Israeli politics. That has gotten old for me, and I won’t put up with it in any of the conversations going on here. My people committed terrible crimes, and ever since then, we have been working to make amends. I’ve already seen a description of the Holocaust on Wikipedia that, depending on how you define it, could relate to the deaths of anywhere between 2 million and 30 million people. Never in my life will I debate about math. It doesn’t matter to me if it was 100 or 100 million. It was wrong to murder people, and it shouldn’t happen again anywhere. Story over.

This community must continue to be a place for open discussions; however, I would prefer not to intervene harshly in any conversations that get improper. Unlike the Palestine community on Lemmygrad, this community is different. I won’t favor one side over the others. I like having spirited talks, which is why I started this community. Such talks ought to be educational rather than propagandistic or meant to belittle. I hope to learn more about the situation and hope others do as well.

I expect heated discussions. After all, it wouldn’t be a proper Irish wedding without a small brawl or two. As long as the participants can agree afterward that the choice of whiskey was good, and a good time was had by all.

When posting an item, please utilize a paragraph or two from the article rather than simply the headline to persuade readers to read the entire thing.

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/23410535

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/23410534

from 972Magazine [published in Israel]
By Haggai Matar
November 26, 2024

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#FCKNZS

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Israel has successfully decoupled the Lebanese front from Gaza, effectively ending the attrition along its northern border. This maneuver has left Gaza and its resistance isolated, facing the full weight of Israeli military and political pressure. While support may still emerge from other fronts, particularly Yemen, Gaza’s leverage in negotiations has been significantly diminished, reducing its bargaining power.

This decoupling also allows Israel to advance its war plans in Gaza, albeit with several caveats. The first challenge lies in Israel’s broader strategic intention: reasserting control over Gaza for the foreseeable future. Israel’s military return to the strip raises questions about the sustainability of such a move, the costs of governance, and the long-term implications for its domestic and international standing. The logistical, political, and social complexities of maintaining control in such a contested territory present formidable obstacles, specifically when it has failed to defeat Hamas or end its influence in the Strip.

Secondly, Israel’s plans for settlement expansion in Gaza, annexation of land, redrawing the border, and a continued presence in the Philadelphi Corridor and other strategic areas reflect a deeper settler-colonial ambition. These plans aim to consolidate territorial dominance but come with significant risks. Sustained Palestinian resistance, combined with the logistical and ethical complexities of imposing settler-colonial structures, makes such objectives precarious. The transfer of settlers into Gaza demands a degree of stability and acquiescence from the local population that seems improbable under the current conditions. Furthermore, these plans complicate Israel’s position regarding the return of captives, presenting a critical contradiction in its strategic calculus.

These contradictions are now poised to dominate Israel’s political landscape. After more than a year of war, fatigue, and weariness are settling in, challenging the narrative of total victory. Signs of pragmatism are emerging, with growing segments of Israeli society—particularly over recent months—expressing a desire to end the wars in Gaza and Lebanon. This sentiment underscores a tension between the state’s expansive military ambitions and the public’s increasing demand for stability and resolution, a return to life without war.

However, these dynamics unfold against the backdrop of a right-wing government fixated on ethnic cleansing and settlement expansion. The sacrifice of the captives, a central concern for Israel’s left-leaning factions, will exacerbate the internal struggles over Netanyahu’s corruption and intersect with the controversial legal reforms championed by the Religious Zionist bloc. This broader project to redefine the state’s identity could deepen societal fractures, polarize the political arena, and intensify the ongoing battle over the future trajectory of Israel.

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cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/48375341

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Project Esther is a new proposal from Heritage that claims to lay out a plan to combat antisemitism in the United States. In fact, it aims to destroy the Palestine solidarity movement as a first step in a crusade to, ultimately, restrict activism against American policy of all sorts, foreign and domestic.

The key strategy Project Esther proposes is to identify the Palestine solidarity movement as the “Hamas Support Network,” and organizations in the movement as “Hamas Support Organizations.”

The second aim is to attack the ability of organizations to function by casting them as supporters of terrorism, and specifically of an organization that has been designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist organization. This would make it impossible for those organizations to legally raise money or complete legal business transactions.

Throughout the document, in addition to erasing the distinction between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, the writers attempt to paint the movement as a threat not only to Israeli apartheid—which, of course, it is—but also to democracy in the United States.

The conspiracy that Project Esther tries to paint also reaches into the United States government. The document names Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, Summer Lee, Ayana Pressley, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Greg Casar, Andre Carson, Hank Johnson, Jan Schakowsky, Mark Pocan, Pramila Jayapal, Bernie Sanders, Chris Van Hollen, and Elizabeth Warren as being part of or supporting the “Hamas Caucus.”

Speaking with Zeteo, Professor Joseph Howley of Columbia University, an anti-Zionist Jew, said, “[F]ar-right Zionist hegemonists have wanted for years to make being an anti-Zionist or non-Zionist or Israel-critical Jew illegal. This year they’ve succeeded in getting universities to make it policy …. Now they want to make it federal law.”

Jewish Voice for Peace’s executive director Stefanie Fox told Zeteo, ““It has never been clearer that defending Palestinian solidarity organizing is one of the most critical frontlines of democracy defense today… this McCarthyite initiative is led by Christian Nationalists, who directly threaten the safety and freedom of all marginalized people, including BIPOC peoples, religious minorities, queer people and women.”

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22133834

Retired Jewish professor Haim Bresheeth, a child of Holocaust survivors and founder of the Jewish Network for Palestine, was arrested under a UK anti-terrorism law after speaking at a recent pro-Palestinian protest in London.

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How to talk to Israel supporters (www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk)
submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22035706

Sat 2 Mar 2024

"Alex McDonald’s When They Speak Israel, reviewed here by Steve Grant, explains to all of us how to engage. His basic assumption is that while some Zionists are dyed-in-the-wool racists or ethnonationalists, most are not. They sincerely believe they oppose racism but have been taught that support for Israel is justified — if not a solemn moral duty."

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Fascinating episode from Einat Wilf's podcast in reference to an article she co-wrote with two Arabs who support peaceful coexistence with Israel shortly after the Abraham Accords were signed. The most interesting part of the discussion comes up at around 10:15 where she talks about the silencing of voices like these by Western progressives. The tl/dr: Pro-peace Arab voices are silenced by Western progressives because that perspective conflicts with their decolonization anti-Zionist narrative, so these voices hurt the cause.

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21665513

By world-outlook.com on October 19, 2024

[part 2 of an interview originally published in Jacobin, along with an introduction, additional links, photos, and endnotes]

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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
 

In light of events following the previous post, it is almost certain shelling of the UN peacekeepers camp was not an accident from attacking nearby hezbollah tunnels.

The UN forces are the target of the Israeli army, as bulldozers usually dont accidentally show up in a warzone to specifically bulldoze a UN watch tower.

Oct 20 (Reuters) - The U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) said in a statement that an Israeli army bulldozer had demolished an observation tower and perimeter fence of a U.N. position in Marwahin in southern Lebanon on Sunday.
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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
 

Their reasonings isn't making the slightest sense at all, so unless the article forgot to mention something entirely, this is rediculous.

Follow up post: https://lemmy.world/post/21092844

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