this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2024
119 points (96.9% liked)

United Kingdom

4065 readers
583 users here now

General community for news/discussion in the UK.

Less serious posts should go in [email protected] or [email protected]
More serious politics should go in [email protected].

Try not to spam the same link to multiple feddit.uk communities.
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.

Posts should be related to UK-centric news, and should be either a link to a reputable source, or a text post on this community.

Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.

If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread.

Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.

Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (5 children)

"Tradition is never an excuse for cruelty," says Mr Fry, who is narrating a video which shows undercover film of how black bears are killed.

A supporter of the animal welfare group made an undercover video which claims to show hunters putting down buckets of strongly-scented food as bait, and then shooting black bears with crossbow bolts when they approach.

This doesn’t exactly seem like a revelation to me, and I don’t know why you’d need undercover footage… how do you think they hunted bears?

Living their life in nature before being killed is about as good as it gets for animals. I thought they were gonna say they’re caged from birth or something.

Besides a POV of “killing any animal is wrong”, I don’t really see an issue. It appears to be regulated and as long as they’re maintaining the bear population appropriately why is it any different than hunting deer or killing a cow for leather?

I think it would be a good thing if they moved away from real bear fur for an alternative, but don’t see it as a real issue either way tbh.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The problem is that wild animals are being killed so an unelected king in a democratic country can have his guards wear fancy hats

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I’d like the monarchy abolished as well tbh, but their hats are towards the bottom of the list of reasons why.

That’s also not gonna be Stephen Fry’s point, as good as he can be about some issues he’s also a known monarchist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

an unelected king

Are kings ever elected? Like, what's an example of an elected king? 😅

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe surprising, but yes. The pope is an example. Historically it was not super uncommon, nowadays Malaysia and Cambodia for instance still have an elected monarch.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

And in the context of the UK?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Oh it is completely irrelevant for Fry's point. Just thought it was interesting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Chances are (and I'm up for being corrected on this). The bears are being culled to maintain population levels.

In all areas of the world, human interaction with nature means we've upset the usual ecosystem balance. We've moved predator/prey ecosystems, we've changed their sizes and we've decided there are big areas we just don't want the predators. Culling/management is necessary to minimise our further impact.

These bears are going to be shot with or without the furs being used. They're not being killed so someone can have the fancy hats.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

Perhaps not the best source

Freedom of information act requests have revealed that the UK government does not know the details of the supply chain for the fur it buys, as MP John Nicolson pointed out during the debate:

"The evidence is that most bears in Canada are killed by trophy hunters who know there is a market for the skins. Canadian Government culls are infrequent and only authorised to kill the small number of bears straying too close to human habitation. The MoD has no idea about the provenance of the dead bears it buys. The evidence, again, is that they are often nursing mothers. When they are killed to make a hat, their cubs starve to death."

Canadian bear hunt policies are largely economically driven, despite many questioning the financial benefits over ecotourism investments. Black bear hunting trips cost thousands of dollars and, since the Government of Ontario has reintroduced the spring bear hunt, non-resident trophy hunters are paying to bait and kill bears for sport as they emerge from hibernation. Rather than being a by-product of wildlife management, bear pelts from Canada mostly come from recreational hunts.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

This doesn’t exactly seem like a revelation to me, and I don’t know why you’d need undercover footage… how do you think they hunted bears?

Because most people don't think about it. Video is a good way to get them started.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

how do you think they hunted bears?

With guns tbh

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

how do you think they hunted bears?

I'm a little surprised by the crossbows. My guess would have been rifles.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Besides a POV of “killing any animal is wrong”, I don’t really see an issue. It appears to be regulated and as long as they’re maintaining the bear population appropriately why is it any different than hunting deer or killing a cow for leather?

It may be because deer and cows are used for meat as well as their hide.

I'm not sure what happens to the rest of the bear.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Not sure what happens to these bears but I know many Canadian hunters eat bear.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

People do eat bear meat. I'm sure some just skin it and leave it but it is plenty edible.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

True, if it’s wasteful then move away from it, but then again maybe there does need to be intervention to maintain bear population anyway.