this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2022

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US’ real strategic color of selfishness, hypocrisy revealed in Ukraine crisis (www.globaltimes.cn)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Where has the US been which provoked the war and said it "stands with Ukraine?"

I have yet to see any evidence that western powers are in any way responsible for the war. If you consider the war is caused by the ukrainian government not respecting the Minsk agreements, then it's an internal policy matter and i fail to understand how that implicates the USA. Moreover, from all i could see western powers (at least in open/official channels) have been preaching for de-escalation whereas Putin was openly calling/threatening for escalation.

I hate the US and French colonial empires, but come on it's hard to blame them when another major colonial empire invades a country (which just so happens to be its former colony). In true internationalist spirit, we should be supportive of people struggling for freedom & equality on both sides across continents and borders. Fuck nation states and military organizations, vive la commune!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yes, U.S. and NATO were "preaching for deescalation" while shipping millions of dollars worth of weapons to Ukraine. All while deploying "instructors" and supporting a planned Ukronazi attack on Donbass republics. Of course Russia wasnt just gonna watch and let that happen.

Russia also offered diplomatic solutions many times (since December, and in fact since 2014). Those were all rejected, and now it seems that the time for diplomacy is over.

Edit: forgot to add, just a few days ago Ukraine threatened to develop nuclear weapons. That was obviously a red line for Russia.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ukronazi

What's this neologism? Are you not aware nazis are very well integrated in the State apparatus in many nations? It's not just Ukraine: it's also Russia, France, Germany... So why paint a single nation as nazis when more or less of all the parties involved in the conflict are varying brand of imperialism and racial/cultural supremacy?

supporting a planned Ukronazi attack on Donbass republics

What's the evidence that there was a wide-scale attack planned? If that was true, it could justify bringing military support to Donbass as an incentive for the central government not to attack, but how could it ever justify invading the rest of Ukraine?!

Russia also offered diplomatic solutions many times (since December, and in fact since 2014).

From this article, the demands formulated by Russia amount to saying eastern european countries can't have military alliances except with them (neocolonialism, much?). Interviewed russian foreign ministry says:

This is not about us giving some kind of ultimatum, there is none. The thing is that the seriousness of our warning should not be underestimated

That's not a diplomatic solution, that's extortion/bullying. "Do what i say, or else..." has nothing to do with diplomacy and nothing to do with the political autonomy of specific regions.

just a few days ago Ukraine threatened to develop nuclear weapons. That was obviously a red line for Russia

Iran did pursue to develop nuclear weapon for decades. Has that ever justified a full-scale military invasion from the USA? Oh yes, the USA fascists and hard-liners from the republicans would have loved that. Just like the various fascists, traditionalists and neo-nazis of Russia who love the flag and the military really love the idea of conquering Ukraine and reforming a Great Russia (like historical nazis liked their Great Germany). I did not think i would ever say this in my entire life, but do you realize you're spitting propaganda from actual fascists in the name of fighting against nazism?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2022/02/25/experts-warned-for-years-that-nato-expansion-would-lead-to-this/

PLEASE. Please read this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've read it. Some sources in there are interesting, but the material itself is completely disconnected from reality. In the sociopathic game of geopolitics, NATO expansion has certainly destabilized the balance of power and incentivized Russia to assert itself (and its claim on its former colonies). But you cannot compare countries forging military alliances, and a country invading another country... it's a completely different kind of escalation.

If anything, your article confirms that Putin is a colonialist bully just as much as NATO is in other parts of the world. It's just russian propaganda and does not account for mischief and imperialist ambitions on the part of Russia. If you want a more nuanced source, i'd recommend checking out Glenn Greewald's Twitter feed: it does a great job to denounce the hypocrisy of western powers, while at the same time acknowledging that invading a sovereign nation is always wrong, no matter what.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If Putin is a madman colonialist bully to you, NATO has succeeded in brainwashing you. Caitlin is not detached from reality, you are. You are okay with NATO invading Russia and surrounding it with Aegis missile system, but Russia protecting Donbas citizens from Ukraine is madman dictator shit. To you, Zelensky, who has a 25% approval rate and jailed the democratically elected Poroshenko and banning opposition media, is not dictatorship, but Putin is a madman. You have been convinced by NATO and its controlled media.

Greenwald fell off long ago after the Snowden saga. When Ukraine was attacking and killing Donbas citizens for 8 years, where was this resistance and media hullabaloo? Or is it selective Cold War bias going on?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You are okay with NATO invading Russia and surrounding it with Aegis missile system

I'm not OK with either. But NATO did not invade Russia and AFAIK is not planning to. There is zero evidence to believe

Russia protecting Donbas citizens from Ukraine

I have no problems with that. But that's not what's happening: there is a full-scale invasion going on threatening the capital of Ukraine, where Putin's demands go far beyond independence for Donbass.

To you, Zelensky, who has a 25% approval rate and jailed the democratically elected Poroshenko and banning opposition media

What the hell are you talking about? I may be missing some details, but Poroshenko's wikipedia page does not mention incarceration, but mentions losing in the elections to Zelensky. To quote the article:

There was no true consensus (...) why Poroshenko lost (...) [:] opposition to intensifying nationalism, failure to stem corruption, dissatisfaction of overlooked Russian-speaking regions with his presidency (...) He is considered an oligarch due to the scale of his business holdings in the manufacturing, agriculture and financial sectors, his political influence that included several stints at government prior to his presidency, and ownership of an influential mass-media outlet. (...) His presidency was distilled into a three-word slogan, employed by both supporters and opponents: armiia, mova, vira. In translation from Ukrainian, it is: military, language, faith.

I'm not saying Zelensky is much better, but you seem to be ardent to defend an actual bourgeois fascist whose slogan is "military, language, faith" and inventing conspiracies around him? I mean if you do have reliable sources contradicting this Wikipedia article, please help improve it.

Or is it selective Cold War bias going on?

Yes there's selective cold war propaganda going on. And you're fully subscribed to one side of it. I personally am very critical of both sides of the propaganda, and supportive of the civilians and internationalist socialists/communists/anarchists suffering due to political repression on both sides of the border. As much as you dismiss Greenwald, he's doing a correct journalistic job on this topic: he's presenting the lies from both sides and supporting the victims (the populations). You're just a puppet of the Russian Empire. Which side are you on? Are you on the same side as Putin and NATO and other vampires playing the same game of geopolitics? Or are you on the side of the people who struggle against oppression and aim for self-organization at all levels of society?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

But NATO did not invade Russia and AFAIK is not planning to. There is zero evidence to believe

NATO wants to eat communism for breakfast, Russia for lunch and China for dinner. What makes you think otherwise? Imperialist propaganda since Cold War has been pretty much about this.

Putin’s demands go far beyond independence for Donbass.

Quoting should help here, because Putin's recent speech tells otherwise.

What the hell are you talking about?

Correction, not yet arrested, but the whole trope seems to be about just that. https://kyivindependent.com/national/explainer-is-poroshenko-treason-case-justice-or-political-persecution/

Yes there’s selective cold war propaganda going on. And you’re fully subscribed to one side of it.

One side... that has 0% representation in current media for SOME reason.

You’re just a puppet of the Russian Empire.

Thanks, I got called one by few people, I am used to getting called "wumao" and "Chinese plant" too, so I guess I will take it as a badge of honour for standing for the truth.

Are you on the same side as Putin and NATO and other vampires playing the same game of geopolitics? Or are you on the side of the people who struggle against oppression and aim for self-organization at all levels of society?

Good question. You look to be on the side of Ukraine, that wants to prevent the oppressed people of DPR and LPR to have independence, and you support NATO by omission of argument as well. Your first question mixing Putin and NATO on the same side is a fallacy, and I will assume it is intentional, since you called me "Russian puppet".

You are a fake leftist. I hope all of you supporting NATO lies learn a lesson of recognising propaganda and learn some morality soon. SWIFT sanctions in place means the struggle will not be too long now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Putin's actions, not words, have convinced me. No one has invaded Russia. Russia has invaded Ukraine. You cannot talk fast enough to change the facts.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Do not worry, NATO propaganda is falling apart so fast in real time, with the SWIFT sanctions in place, it is just a matter of time. Probably a few weeks or months till the revelation of Iraq war style propaganda is admitted, it has already begun.

https://nitter.net/RealAlexRubi/status/1497747535783411714