this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
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I would be careful with gadgets that have software on them like phones and laptops. God knows what kind of Chinese spyware they come with.
I am sure China established NSA in 1960s and started global surveillance programs in 70s. And Snowden and Assange exposed Chinese government.
Oh wait.
This is classic whataboutism. You should try to avoid it because it's an incredibly poor defense if nothing else.
I've been bitching about the PATRIOT Act since less than a week after 9/11 happened. The Act's continued existence doesn't excuse China's well-documented bad behavior.
Well-documented deeznuts. China's bad behaviour mostly has only one source, that anonymous CIA or Pentagon guy who does not wish to be named, and it almost always turns out to be either false or a dishonest interpretation.
Whataboutism is a dog whistle word used by Westerners for deflection used to abrupt or end the argument when there are no real counterpoints. And since US government loves to demonize their "near-peer competitors" (official term) China and Russia, its perfectly fair to argue with US in perspective.
If you spent any time reading the articles, you would see Australian sources for incidents dating back to 2012, Lithuanians reporting in 2018, and various private security companies also weighing in.
If the only defence you have for bad behavior is that other people do it, then I guess slavery, mass murder, torture, and theft are all okay. I don't accept when people do those things, and not because I haven't done them but because I believe they are damaging to society no matter who does them. That applies to various acts on the national level, as well.
Too bad I know the kind of anti-China drivel Australia (deputy sheriff of NATO) pushes out with 60 Minutes and via their Murdoch media network, and surely enough you are not convincing me with Lithuania, the country that thinks Taiwan is a country, and the same country whose military lied about Xiaomi spying a couple years ago on behest of US government.
I made a mistake, not in anything I said but in assuming you were willing and able to discuss this in good faith.
My mistake was giving you the benefit of doubt that you might not have a pro-NATO pro-capitalist xenophobic agenda.
When it comes to hardware, isn't the situation usually...
Heard of FISA courts and gag orders? Every single company involved in Snowden leaks had one for PRISM, and for every single NSA ops conducted since 1970s. This is an open thing.
You may go read pages 63 and 64 here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903.152.0_1.pdf
I never get evidence from US government for this, despite the bullshit propaganda they invent and disseminate via media. Even Germany and UK's GCHQ declared Huawei 5G gear to be clean, until USA nudged them to quietly align with the "narrative" and protect NATO's xenophobic interests, if they do not want consequences. What are these Chinese hardware backdoors, that I barely see anything on, compared to that on Cisco routers, Intel, AMD, Siemens, Nokia and other US/Europe tech companies?
How else is China collecting all its data on its citizens?
Very, very basic userspace level software methods. Methods that do not even need to go as deep as Facebook/Google/Apple or others.
Spying on people is easier than you think. Create fear and citizens will comply with just about anything for their "safety". But in China's case, the two Opium Wars lost against the 8 Nation Alliance is far too traumatic, and that serves as the fuel for current and old people to never see their children in the same world. The "Century of Humiliation" is a phrase easy to notice, and they are quite keen on regaining their global financial position they had before Western Industrial Revolution and Britain's "laissez faire" colonialism happened.
Actually, that's super exciting! I would have a fun time taking it apart, analyzing it, and publishing it. Would be great publicity, and would probably make me more money than the laptop/phone/whatever cost me.
That being said, the USA has the most established history of compromising cryptography and security. It's not so much that I trust China or don't trust the USA, it's that I don't trust any superpower, am fairly wary of nations in general, and in fact don't have much trust for organizations of anything over a handful of people.
And the rest of the world will say the same with respect to American spyware.
As a foreign nation, why would you use a core piece of software on all your government computers? I'll never understand why Windows is used in any secure government installation, let alone non-American ones.
Because Microsoft forces itself on countries with deals. Its how they have always done things. Contractual lock in until folks are stuck needing windows for proprietary software.
Microsoft actively goes to schools and governments using linux or mac and makes cheap contracts, at first, to move them all and they bribe too.
Monopoly is their goal always