this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
66 points (100.0% liked)
Beehaw Support
2796 readers
1 users here now
Support and meta community for Beehaw. Ask your questions about the community, technical issues, and other such things here.
A brief FAQ for lurkers and new users can be found here.
Our September 2024 financial update is here.
For a refresher on our philosophy, see also What is Beehaw?, The spirit of the rules, and Beehaw is a Community
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Not sure about ethics, but if the argument of "excessive moderation overhead" still holds true for staying defederated from Lemmy.world, the same should apply a thousandfold for Threads.
yeah i mean this is the veto even if we wanted to do this (which we don't) and even if the community wanted it (which they clearly don't seem to--nobody's clamored for us to federate with Threads). even a tiny fraction of a fraction of threads being involved with our site would probably top the peak of workload we had when Lemmy took off. there is no current realistic circumstance in which we'd ever choose to or be able to federate with them.
You guys are not federated with lemmy.world‽
Doesn't that exclude a LOT of content?
It cuts out a lot of spam and low-effort posting.
I have a Beehaw account and another that federates with .world. I enjoy my Beehaw account much more, to the point I almost never use the other account. There’s just much more valuable content here.
I do miss some of the more niche Reddit subs i frequented before the purge. That’s probably the only thing really lacking. And it probably more a testament to how busy I’ve been this year. I just don’t have the time to explore other instance’s communities that Beehaw does federate with.
There is a big difference between a lot of content and quality content. I appreciate Beehaw for our quality, not the quantity. There are certainly some great content on other instances, but sorting through the crap noise to find the good, just isn't worth my effort.
You don't see/experience Beehaw as more argumentative than Reddit? I've had a hard time staying with Lemmy/Beehaw because people seem to pop out of the woodwork to have exhaustive arguments. If I could share two experiences.
One was me asking a popular game developer how they wrote a shader for Unity so I could port it to Godot. I got a nice reply on how they did it and even a link to the Godot version someone else did. I even got other people thanking me for that comment and opening the conversation up. Another time I was explaining what that Starfield designer said on Twitter recently wasn't terrible. I explained calmly and clearly the point of view of a game developer and got responses that either people didn't see it that way or that they thought the designer still shouldn't have said those words because of the marketing timing. Overall the exchanges were great and not only gave me a new perspective but made me feel like I opened other people's eyes.
The other experience of someone telling me because I plan to vote for Biden that I support genocide and they won't hear anything about how I don't. Another great example is how people are defending pirating games from any level of game developer. Even in threads where I comment and explain that pirating hurts employees, people don't even have a decent conversation about it. They just want to keep excusing their behavior without discussion.
Overall, it's made me wonder how people are experiencing Beehaw and Lemmy. If for some reason I am the odd one out. With my two experiences, one on Reddit and one on Beehaw, I question if I am the problem because of the experiences on Beehaw/Lemmy but it's still me at the root of the experience. So, I feel like I've done the leg work to rule myself out.
I think that Beehaw/Lemmy just attract a certain type of person that typically agrees with each other but Reddit is a mixing pot of a bunch of opinions that have interesting conversations. Reddit feels like what Beehaw was supposed to be. I wish we could ensure our culture on Beehaw reflects our ideals but it's starting to feel like they don't and won't.
Reddit is so hostile to women that I never felt comfortable posting anything. I was a lurker. It took me 3 years to make an account, just so I could sub to places and not forget they existed. But in all my years on Reddit, I never posted. I saw how women would get roasted and never felt like part of that community. I would report many comments that were hateful towards women just for the report to come back and say “sorry, nothing wrong here”.
I went back to look up something and it just seems like a cesspool of bots. The front page is nothing but stupid questions that I’ve seen asked more than I can count, memes, screenshots of texts and AITA with the most outrageous scenarios and answers. And guess what, I still see the same hostility towards women. It’s hard to feel welcome and participate with a culture like that.
Way back in the day, Reddit was a place people would argue something to death. If you disagreed with the hive mind, you were shunned. And don’t even think about making a spelling or grammar mistake, you’d get blasted for that too. And every so often, someone would post something compelling, and Reddit would collectively hold that opinion as truth.
I left facebook in 2016, and Reddit feels a lot like facebook was when I left. And now it’s time to move away from Reddit; at least for me.
Hmm, maybe it's because I joined in 2012 where the default subs were very different. On top of that, I dropped most of them for that sort of behavior. A lot of subreddits I'm in are small enough to filter out the cesspool of default Reddit. I just personally haven't found that on Lemmy because there isn't a ton of content here. Overall as I think about it, Lemmy and Reddit and probably social media in general is what you make it. Who you willingly subscribe/follow/etc.
You're not the first person I've heard who said that so there must be something there. That's not my experience however, I find that Reddit makes me angry these days, getting annoyed at all the low-effort, inconsiderate posting. Having a debate on Reddit is impossible I find because saying something that goes slightly against the hive-mind you'll you'll be passive-aggressively downvoted, which has a chilling effect on what people say. I like that Beehaw doesn't have downvotes, especially on local communities. On Beehaw/Lemmy someone might argue with you but that's at least better I think than the knee-jerk downvote-to-oblivion you get on Reddit.
It's true that a lot of people are more similar here than on Reddit. I'd argue that's not necessarily a bad thing. The one-size-fits-all social network for everybody approach I think doesn't work, it's more natural to choose a group you fit in to and feel comfortable with (which is how things were on old style forums and message boards). What ever happens to Lemmy/Beehaw in the future, the main thing I hope for is to have plenty of choice of smaller forums which is what's been lacking in the last decade or so.
I've been experiencing more argumentation from non-beehaw users. I think they treat our communities (Politics, LGBTQ, News, etc.) as defaults and they don't realize that they're on beehaw. I've reminded people of the rules before and had responses telling me they didn't realize they had posted on beehaw.
Unfortunately this is one of the downsides of federation. Without better mod tools for now we just ask that it report anyone who's not being nice and we'll do our best to manage it.
I was on Reddit for a very long time and a few Lemmy instances when everyone moved. While it’s not perfect, Beehaw is by far the place where I can read comments that are original, less hateful, and less pedantic. I chose Behhaw because everything else is just exhausting to me
Yeah, I've heard this argument but the numbers don't match up. Word of mouth from pirates just really doesn't seem to amount to that much. It seems in general that pirates pirate popular games that already have that word of mouth and they don't play unpopular games. If you search for a random 10-year-old less than 100 reviews game on Pirate Bay, it won't pop up.
Pirate Bay is not representative of the pirating scene, it only has the "tip of the iceberg" most popular stuff, and even then missing a lot of it. For a better view, check BTDigg... but even that is missing data from all the private trackers where more dedicated people are keeping the more obscure stuff, not to mention the not-torrent networks, which is where most of the scene is. Then you have private datahoarders who keep their stash off-line, but can make a copy available if you ask nicely.
You could probably find any game ever published, even multiple version releases, if you contacted the right people.
We are talking about the average pirate though. Which would use Pirate Bay.
What is "the average pirate"? Someone who goes to places like this, with tons of file sharing resources listed on the sidebar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing
TPB is only a tiny slice of what's listed for everyone to find.
I did not mention that the games were unpopular. In fact, I stated that they hurt any level of game developer.
No, I am saying word of mouth from pirates isn't effective because, on the whole, pirates typically pirate popular games. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square.
People do give away their games for a limited amount of time to boost word-of-mouth effectiveness but they aren't free all the time and typically have a request to buy a game. Overall the argument that piracy helps indies is silly because if those indies thought it helped, they would do a free weekend or a giveaway. Piracy in itself is removing a tool and options from the creator of the game. I have a standing policy that if people email me a reason they can't pay for my games then they can get a Steam key.
None of the things you've said are backed by fact. I only have my actual industry experience to go on, countless studies, articles, and posts from game developers stating piracy hurts them. Giveaways aren't less useful, they spread more word of mouth and you can cite psychology all day but the fact is that in practice, it doesn't work like that. I have 10 years in the industry as an indie game developer. Pirates hurt my business more than help, I have tangible numbers on multiple titles that back that up. Steam Free Weekends brought in millions of dollars for a few titles I've worked on. Piracy hasn't tangibly brought anything in and we've seen revenue increases when DRM is enacted. Thus, the only real conclusion you can come to is piracy hurts developers. To twist it in your mind that it could possibly, maybe help is you excusing the behavior.
Lastly, these are the silly arguments I have been talking about. This entire conversation just proves my point and wears me out. Because I've never met anyone at GDC or any convention that would say that piracy helped their business. Your perspective is clearly that of someone who pirates and thinks it helps. It doesn't and it hurts game developers on all levels. It's a worthless argument to even have because if it helped, game developers would encourage it. Realistically, there are only a few game developers that do and they typically don't do so for their next title. Meaning they found it didn't work.
Couldn't tell you, what am I missing?
Hard to name anything specific, it's just that most of the content I see scrolling through the feed is from lemmy.world communites or users.