this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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"We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not."

That's gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I've heard in a while.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.

This thread indicates not.

Centrist Democrats have never considered that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don’t really understand this. The republican position is clearly pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian. What are they hoping to achieve by destabilizing Biden?

I’m not a Biden fan, but he is clearly less detrimental to their position that the alternative…

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (20 children)

You don't understand that people don't want to participate in a system where both choices require them to take active participation in what they see as genocide of their own people?

Or you just don't see how anyone could possibly oppose genocide?

In either case, you certainly didn't show any evidence at all that you have given any consideration whatsoever to the idea that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You've only got three options.

  1. Pick Gun A. Someone shoots 8 people with Gun A.

  2. Pick Gun B. Someone shoots 20 people with Gun B.

  3. Don't pick either gun. Other people decide which gun will be used. Someone shoots either 8 or 20 people with the chosen gun.

If I don't want people to die, what should I pick? Should I pick Gun A because I want to make sure the fewest people die? Or should I not pick at all, so that I can feel good about myself if gun B is chosen and 20 people die?

I'm sympathetic to them, but refusing to participate in the system doesn't mean the system goes away. It just means you pretend you don't have blood on your hands. If you care about keeping the Palestinian death toll as low as possible, you vote for the option that will kill the fewest. That's voting for Biden. Choose not to vote, and the death toll may be higher.

Blood will be on my hands no matter what I pick. I choose to see and accept that blood, if it means even one life is saved that would be doomed otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I suppose congrats are in order. We have a real life Trolley Problem.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (7 children)

If you don't need their votes, keep acting like you can order them to vote like you want. You can always blame them for the results, but you'll still have the results.

The party would rather lose to Trump and have someone to blame than try to appeal to the voters it regards with withering contempt. It may make you feel morally superior to scream at people, but that doesn't move the needle in the direction you need.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Pretty much. If fascism takes over America centrist Democrats will be partly to blame

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Won't stop them from blaming all the people they alienated.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Weird so many in this thread seem to think if you insult people for not wanting to be genocided, they'll support the candidate you like. Make it feel more clear that these people don't actually care about them and just see them as pawns for their own goals.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

Weird so many in this thread seem to think if you insult people for not wanting to be genocided, they’ll support the candidate you like.

"Vote for me to do shit you hate, moron! Wait... why are you staying home?"

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I think its more that they kinda can't win. Trapped in the inertia of past governments propping up Israel...backing out of support fully is never going to happen. Best they can do is try to lean on Israel to ceasefire. Then of course there's the consideration for Jewish voters who support Israel, which iirc is a larger voting bloc than American Muslims.

Of course it is also amusing that Muslims are seemingly okay with getting Trump in, the guy who intentionally inflamed tensions in the Middle East.

Then of course there's also the danger of turning Dems against Muslims because of the perceived betrayal...which honestly I'd care a lot less about what happens to Muslims in America if they get Trump in.

Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (17 children)

I'd wager the majority of American Jews would actually approve of at least conditioning aid to Israel so they stop bombing civilian targets. And the ones that are pro-genocide, are probably already voting for Republicans.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.

Yeah, it doesn't work when the person you're attempting to extract concessions from doesn't care if you pull the trigger. And it's evident that Democrats would prefer Trump to even attempting to represent these people.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

See, the problem here is that the Muslims can do whatever they want in this scenario, but the bottom line is that they have to accept the same shit as everyone else.

If I'm being honest, this whole stunt just looks like trying to force the democratic party into doing what they want at the expense of other, more numerous voters.

For example, I have to accept that Biden isn't going to do everything I want like go hard after the wealthy or force through student loan forgiveness. However, him being in power means my LGBT friends and family, as well as any female relatives and friends have protection for their rights and bodily autonomy.

It's not a great choice to have to make because our system sucks, but I have to make that call because Republicans will absolutely make things worse. In the cold, calculating world of politics, if I had to choose between my friends and family having rights or Palestinians not being killed...I'd pick my friends and family 10/10 times. Of course I'd rather have both, but that's the reality of the situation.

Then of course there's the whole question of why those Muslim people are in America (yes, I'm aware of how dangerously close this line of thinking gets to dipshit conservatives bitching about immigrants). Is making their current home demonstrably worse for them really a good idea?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (16 children)

See, the problem here is that the Muslims can do whatever they want in this scenario

Yeah, voters having free will is a problem for Democrats.

Then of course there’s the whole question of why those Muslim people are in America (yes, I’m aware of how dangerously close this line of thinking gets to dipshit conservatives bitching about immigrants).

You were already close to the line.

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