403
Florida teacher fired for using gender-neutral honorific ‘Mx.’
(www.nbcnews.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
403 points (94.3% liked)
News
22896 readers
4300 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
How about we come up with a better term rather than use a stupid one that someone has to tell you how to pronounce.
To be fair Mrs. (And to a lesser extent Mr.) Don't have an obvious pronunciation from the spelling either. You've just been hearing them said out loud for most of your life.
Fair, but they are also shorthand for words: Mister, Miss, Missus. All of which are pronounced as you'd expect.
Is Mx short for something? I've not heard so but that doesn't mean it isn't.
Apparently it's short for "Mix". I only learned that in this post, which suggests it's far from established - I assumed it was along the lines of "latino/latina -> latinx".
Obligatory "Latine" is the preferred gender neutral term for spanish speakers because it actually follows the gendering rules of the language, rather than english speakers making shit up.
Yesss that sounds far better.
Even if it sounds close to a word for "toilet" - but then, half the argument revolves around toilets.
Let people piss and shit in peace.
It takes 10 seconds to learn its pronounced mix. Its not difficult in the slightest
Anyone with an S lettered last name is gunna sound like Mc S
I just tried it with my last name lol.
Mc Steele, makes me feel like a McDonald's meal item.
I'm not saying it's difficult to teach or learn, but if you first encounter it in a book are you going to know it's pronounced "mix?" And if you hear is are you going to know it's spelled "Mx?" You can argue difficulty all you want but if you have something that is spelled how it sounds and pronounced how it looks it's still easier and there will be less confusion.
Where was @[email protected] supposed to have learned that definition before this thread? Where were the students of this teacher's class supposed to have learned it?
Given that English adopts definitions based on a critical mass of people using it, why should Mx. be adopted when it is only used by an exceedingly small minority?
“Hello class, I’m mix Jones. I’ll be your teacher this year”
Or you know, you could just ask. Not a burden in the slightest. Why should I learn how to say your name? The answer is it’s a matter of respect.
That is the real nuance in this case. A teacher is not allowed to "say gay" to their students under Florida state law. However, an employee cannot be discriminated against for their sex under Federal law.
By a plain reading of the law, a gay teacher cannot be fired for being gay. A reasonable extension of that is that they cannot be fired for explaining to students that they are gay. This should hold true for any sexual characteristics that the teacher holds. Federal law overrules state law, thus, even though the state finds it illegal, they should still be protected under Federal law. It might be different if the teacher talked about other people being gay when they are not, but Federal law protects them against discrimination for their sex.
The question is whether "sex" includes being gay, or non-standard gender definitions. I think and hope it does. I worry that the current Supreme Court might rule otherwise.
These two statements kind of contradict each other. Asking implies you need to learn something new. There's nothing wrong with asking or learning something new, but the person presenting a new idea should be prepared that it is a new idea for people to learn, which people might not immediately accept. That doesn't excuse discrimination, but neither is acceptance demandable.
Once some critical mass of a population has accepted the new terminology, then and only then should acceptance be expected - and even then, that only applies to that specific population.
I mean if you see “Mx” and you don’t assume it’s pronounced “mix”, you might have some elementary language difficulties. I understand not being sure, but it is pronounced how it’s spelled.
I don't see anything stupid about this, but if you have better ideas, let's hear them.
The better idea is not to make up terminology that only suits you and an exceptionally small minority and then expect everyone else to adopt it.
By all means, define yourself as you like - but don't expect others to immediately recognise that definition without reasonable explanation.
This case has nuance. On the one hand, a teacher in Florida is not allowed to talk about gay people or anything about alternate genders, per state law. On the other, Federal Law states that no one can be fired over matters regarding sex. Federal law overrules any laws states make, hence the ruling in 303 Creative vs Elenis, however the question is what "sex" covers in the Federal domain.
What honorific should nonbinary people use?
Whatever they like, and other people should be reasonably accommodating to that. Meanwhile, people using rarer honorifics should be accepting that others might find it unusual and sometimes hard to remember.
I think most of them do accept that. Just like most trans people accept that their friends might mess up on gender on occasion after they transition.