this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Science Memes

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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The problem is that you’d need the quarter-million dollar electron microscope to test your reverse-engineered modern version, and if you get something wrong and you fry it…

That being said, I wonder why labs don’t just make a VM. Hardware passthru is definitely a thing, parallel port cards exist (as do serial port) and you can back up a VM to whatever modern storage you want. Maybe the problem is proprietary cards/connectors? PCI-X or older?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The rant in the post has some merit to it, but the thing it sort of misses is also the reason not to use VM. It works just fine. It hasn't been updated in 20 years because it still works. It does what it says on the box. Why put it in a VM? What would you gain from it? If you need Internet just grab a laptop and have it sit next to the main computer. That way users have a much smaller chance to break something vital. Pretty much all the control computers are air gapped anyway. No updates or anything to break things you reeeeally don't want to break.

The only case I've seen VMs being used is if the old computer breakes and you can't really find something that's compatible with old-as-fuck software om bare metal. I work in a cleanroom and we got sooo many systems that are windows 95 or older (DOS anyone?). Electron microscope, etching systems, probe stations

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The merit is security, as you can manage what goes into the VM as oppose to having the hardware where people can just plugin a flash drive or network cable.

Then there is also the improvement to not needing to maintain the old hardware, and having a backup of the entire system that you can just copy to a different system and have everything running again.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Sure I can see it being a security feature, random USBs are not a good thing, but I feel like it is quite minor with an air gapped system, no?

The backup is a good point. Though from this I started wondering how difficult it is to get the VM to communicate with old hardware. Like, the hardware might use some random method of actually communicating with the computer, ans getting that through to the VM might be problematic? I have no clue, just spitballing here.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

I had to reverse-engineer a floppy disk encryption scheme that was performed by some DOS software that directly talked to the IDE floppy controller. There's no emulating that. A USB floppy drive can't even be operated in the same way.

It was easier to just crack the (admittedly trivial) encryption.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I'm sure some do, but there's also a certain simplicity to "back up the Win95 machine" and "collect working Pentium 2's from eBay," particularly for fields that are not interested in IT for its own sake. A virtual machine adds an extra layer of abstraction and complexity, though I'm sure there's a slow trickle as entities have trouble replacing hardware or luck into technically savvy and ambitious staff. I've certainly seen my share of data being entered into a Windows 10 app that sure as shit seems to be a terminal emulator running some green-text dinosaur, or else it's got a set of Visual Basic widgets that seem like they'd be compatible with one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

You can get PCIe to PCI cards. I think PCIe is pretty much backwards compatible with PCI and only little logic is required. And PCI-X cards do work in PCI slots at reduced bandwidth.

Tho, if a system works without issue, why touch it? Only if parts become hard or expensive to come by a replacement makes sense.