this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
476 points (91.9% liked)

Technology

59583 readers
3322 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Your Windows 10 PC will soon be 'junk' - users told to resist Microsoft deadline::If you're still using Windows 10 and don't want to upgrade to Windows 11 any time soon you might want to sign a new online petition

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

These people... "please, let me continue being a Microsoft slave!".

Free yourselves and install Linux.

[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I'm so sick of hearing this and I use Linux on a daily basis

Installing Linux for us nerds is just something we know how to do. Asking a computer "normie" (which is, basically everyone else) to change their operating system is just not happening.

I couldn't imagine trying to step my mum through installing Linux if I stood next to her, and I wouldn't class her as stupid.

I maintain that for Linux to obtain mass adoption it either needs to be preinstalled or make it no different to install than a regular Windows program (which is damn near impossible).

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd consider myself a nerd but still prefer Windows.

Some years ago I was in a Vocational college for IT and I had to deal with Ubuntu, Debian and Opensuse. I hated every second of it. I also had to deal with iMacs but that's another story.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm a computer nerd. I do tech support for everyone in the family. I keep trying Linux intermittently and end up uninstalling it and find I can't use it as a daily driver. Although the day I will be able to use it is getting closer. The Steam Deck is helping with this. Also Chat GPT is great for finding solutions for things that either require trawling though tons of online forums or getting shamed for asking.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I use Linux frequently but mostly to run network services and automation- stuff that doesn’t require day to day interaction or has its own web gui.

As far as my desktop go to it’s windows because I can boot it up, install a bunch of shit I know will work out of the box, and start working. I could do that with Linux too but it would take quite a bit of effort to maintain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I currently run Linux on a secondary computer that I mainly use for streaming media while I work from home. Anything in the web browser is great in Linux, especially because I don't feel the age of my several almost 10 year old computers on Linux the way I do on Windows.

For example, I've got an old laptop with a third gen mobile i5, back when 2 cores/4 threads was common on those. It was running Ubuntu for the longest time and it was pretty jarring how slow it was when I tossed windows on there because i thought the laptop was still fine performance-wise

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just follow the handy dandy Microsoft guide to installing Linux https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install

But seriously. Yes, it's true that installing a new OS is a level of effort the average person is unlikely to want to put in. But they're going to have to start because I believe the situation this Windows monopoly is causing is far worse than it appears on the surface.

It's estimated that around half of PCs in the world won't be able to run Windows 11 https://www.computerworld.com/article/3657628/more-than-half-of-pcs-cant-upgrade-to-windows-11-report.html

Sure, a good chunk of those machines probably can't even run Windows 10. They'll still be on earlier versions of Windows, even going back as far as XP in some cases.

Because of the "latest Windows" benchmark PCs depreciate only slightly slower than bananas. Part of the reason I got into Linux as a young and poor nerd was because it could run on much older and significantly cheaper hardware. But most people and organisations aren't going to bother trying to resell their computers for the measly sum they'd get when they bite the bullet and upgrade, adding millions of still perfectly usable machines to the ever building toxic soup of e-waste and using more resources than necessary when creating new Windows compatible devices.

On top of that those who are unable or unwilling to upgrade end up with an OS full of more holes than swiss cheese that diminishes cyber security for everyone.

At this point, not switching to Linux (which is really the only viable Windows alternative) and getting the longest lifespan possible out of your hardware in a safe way is frankly irresponsible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think this is ultimately Microsoft being irresponsible, because most people will either stick with the then insecure Windows 10, or just buy a new device that can take Windows 11. Most would rather do either of those than install Linux, if they even know about Linux at all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Linux (which is really the only viable Windows alternative)

It's just wild to me how BSD has basically entirely fallen off the map. Back when I first was farting around with Linux the server marketshare was pretty evenly distributed between Linux, BSD and Windows Server, then it was half Linux, and now Linux simply dominates the server space

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea I haven't heard of companies using BSD at all these days and it isn't really suitable for desktop use. But I'm interested to see if Haiku progresses to be a good desktop Linux alternative https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Fascinating stuff. Think I'd prefer using this over most of the "alternative" OS that are about. But after reading more about this and Haiku I'm starting to think things like a modern web browser and video/ audio editing tools are probably going to keep me off them both for a long time at least.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

The installation has always been easy enough for me, but what I struggle with is updating drivers and installing new software. Granted, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, so there's that. I did really like the insane variety of distros and all the needs they cater to. Like if there's something specific you need your OS to specialize in, there's probably a Linux distro for it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I switched from Win 10 to Ubuntu this year. The Ubuntu installer was easy as hell. I'd argue easier than windows.

It got tricky when I needed the non-latest CUDA drivers for pytorch fun, but most folks won't be doing development.

Also, most folks don't install windows. They'll give it to their nerd nephew or their local Compu-Hut.

My biggest gripe is Snaps can make for confusing permission bullshit when saving files or using the clipboard, but this isnt a debate about snaps... the installer is great

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most people don't install windows or ask a family member or friend to do it for them, they buy a device that has windows already on it. The number of people who put windows on a device themselves is a miniscule fraction of windows users

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

You're right. Over the years, I've installed various kinds of Windows for relatives, and various Linux distros for myself and my wife. I've found, particularly in recent years, Linux is easier to install and more straightforward. Yeah, I'm an experienced user, so it's fairly easy for me and not intimidating, but I can't see a Linux installation as more difficult to install compared to Windows.

Most users, as you say, don't install an OS themselves, which applies to both Windows, Mac and Linux.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Nah fam, mint's a gamechanger

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I disagree with this because for 20 years both the Ubuntu and Debian GUI installer ran like a practical joke from hell. Even Linus himself said he couldn't get it to work. Only Debian really improved while Ubuntu continues to somehow explode every time I try it

Every other distro besides hardcore ones like Gentoo and Arch have pretty basic installers that greatly outshine the crappy windows 8/10/11 setup screen.

Fedora has an auto installer tool so all you really need is a USB and not some magic funky thing called rufus.

There's even entire DE setups dedicated to looking and functioning exactly like windows to the point that the average person wouldn't even recognize nor care to know the difference.

Yes actually getting someone to replace an OS is hard no matter how easy you make it because it involves doing something unknown or new. But by the same token, we used to run DOS and install windows from floppy disks like it was no big deal back before windows owned the desktop market. Talk to anyone who was a college student in the 90s and they'll probably recognize the word UNIX, even in unrelated non CS fields.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Installing Linux has been painless for over a decade, its as easy as clicking next. You're telling me Windows users can handle all the stupid bullshit Microsoft throws at them, but a couple different icons and a different name is really gonna stop them from understanding the basic desktop metaphor that has been in use since the 90s?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

They weren't talking about using linux, they meant installing it. They were referring to downloading a disk image, writing it to a flashdrive such that it's bootable, making sure your bios is set to let you boot from removable media, pressing the right key for your device to select the boot media, picking the flash drive, and then navigating the installation interface.

There are definitely places where I see folks getting stuck in that process if they're not a technical user and/or familiar with linux

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I wish, but multiple Laptops with unavailable drivers, barely working trackpads, sleep issues and a few other annoyances tell me it isn't always as easy.

I haven't found many systems that Windows doesn't run

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's actually not a big lift for "normies", and I'm considering switching my parents to Linux after Win10 support ends. They don't really know how to use Windows, so I just have to pre-install a Linux that looks similar (probably Mint) and then put Firefox, Libre Office and VLC shortcuts in the same place they expect. As long as Firefox still can get them to youtube and facebook, it doesn't really matter what the rest of the OS can do. I'll have to find an alternative remote support solution though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, you install it for them. He's talking about people installing it themselves.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'll have to find an alternative remote support solution though.

RustDesk works on linux, at least they have a release for it have not tried it myself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How is this going to help his mom install linux?

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

That's a shitty response.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It's not that simple for gamers.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What do you mean bro? Linux runs a shit ton of games and some even better than windows.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It depends on the type of games you play. If you're more like me and you enjoy playing single-player games, then yeah you're all set. If all you play is Valorant and Fortnite and PUBG and League of Legends, you're much more likely to have a hard time. Anticheats are a special kind of evil.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I thought not supporting Windows rootkits is a positive for Linux?

BTW, LoL is playable!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

League is playable most of the time but the launcher frequently breaks and there tend to be issues in-game, I've randomly had sound just straight up not work, and it tends to require a custom build of wine. It's far from the most playable gaming experience. There are much better gaming experiences to be had on Linux.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The problem lies with the games that don't run well. I love Linux as much as the next guy and I hope to see better support in the future.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I check in every now and then. It is still not to the standards that I want.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My fiancée's games all run much better on Debian (with KDE) than on Windows.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That is great for your fiancée! Some of my games don't, unfortunately.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The only modern games I've ever had issues with were a few select DX12 games (and that's due to my GPU). Outside of that, some old games outside of Steam game me trouble, but that's usually just a matter of fiddling with some settings in Lutris. Even then, those are usually games that also have trouble on modern Windows versions, and they often require less tweaking on Linux to get them running.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Modern DX12 games and older games are my jam. Besides, Star Citizen...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Not until game companies embrace Proton(-GE) and Steam Deck.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or anyone reliant on Office for their job

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a cloud service now, so fully usable via the browser.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Mostly, last I tried Browser only about 6 months back it was still missing features that standard office apps had.

load more comments (4 replies)