this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
1021 points (99.3% liked)
Technology
60101 readers
3602 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Repairing is an infinitely more complex task than manufacturing - in this way any government with sufficient wisdom could ensure (pretty interesting and fulfilling) jobs for its citizens despite the march of automation.
In essence, not creating new value from skilled manufacture, but focusing on restoration and enhancememt of value though even more skilled repair and modification.
Exactly, the reason we don't repair things is two fold.
To dig deeper into #2, yes sometimes things are made harder to repair for the sake of thinness or some technological reason, but a main issue is that we cannot afford our own labour. Our wages have not kept up over the last half century and we can no longer afford to hire our neighbors in our local communities for their skills.
Because we have been outsourcing manufacturing for so long we feel like we have money, becYse we can buy a TV for every room. But if that TV was made in NA and not Asia? It would be a $2000 TV, not $400. It's cheaper to buy new because we cannot afford man hours to repair.
The consumer economy we have is built for waste and exploitation. While I 100% support right to repair and it's a step in the right direction, I feel most people will still buy new.
I don't know, your #2 reason doesn't seem to stand up to reality.
I don't know where you are, but where I am (UK) you can go on any high street (in most towns there will be an area where most shops are, think strip mall in the US) and you will find at least a couple shops that fix and sell electronics - primarily smartphones, but also vacuum cleaners, TVs, computers, games consoles.
Pretty much all of them are locally-run and are, I assume, profitable in spite of every electronics manufacturer trying to run them out of business.
I say I assume because they wouldn't be everywhere if they weren't.
I've had phones fixed by them, they offer warranties, reasonable prices, only had an issue once and it was put right after a tiny bit of back and forth.
I think by "we can't afford it" you mean "capitalism hasn't yet found a way to centralise the profits and run the small business owners out of business".
I think saying it doesn't stand up to reality is a bit harsh. I'm not claiming nothing is worth repairing, just that it's cost prohibitive in the majority of cases.
To take your cellphone repair store as an example, I bet they do the majority of their work on iPhones and higher end Samsungs because the upfront cost of those phones are so high. People aren't going to pay repair costs for a cheaper $300 Motorola.
Similarly there are vacuum and appliance repair shops as well, and when your Meile or Bosch breaks then they do their magic, but compared to most people going to Walmart and buying a replacement? I'd say estimate the number of repairs are low.
So yes, without any numbers, I feel pretty confident making the claim that the overwhelming majority of things are not repaired and I don't see this legislation changing that. Like I said before, it's still an improvement I support.
I don't like to blindly speculate, but I think you're right. I don't even live in the highest cost of living area and have no idea how a repairman could pay his bills and eat and be under the cost of a new item. He would need to make $30/hour. If I needed to replace a cracked screen on my phone that would be $120 in labor, $90 in parts. So I could spend $220 something when all said and done... or I could list my phone as is on Ebay for $80, move up a couple years and only have to pay$300 addtl + the $80 for my old phone and now I am much closer to newer gen.
You know there are guys living from repairs, right? They are repairing products that were built on purpose not to be repaired while the manufacturers are actively and intentionally hampering the access to information and parts.
Yes I am aware of that and I addressed in my second comment. They are a relatively niche industry compared to consumption. I would love to see them expand.
This is the whole point: they cannot expand. While there will always be cheap enough products that don't make economic sense to repair there will always be goods that can be repaired. The limit is set by a complex economic equilibrium and is always moving but first you have to create that possibility.
Right now there is only limited repair possibility not because it's not feasible economically or there are no providers or customers for the service but because there is an active struggle from the manufacturers to stop this activity for increased sales and profits.
What products are so cheap as to not repair? I can truly only think of light bulbs and similar.
I would nearly always prefer to pay 3x for an item that I know will last 5x the other item, especially if modular, so it can be upgraded. I would love for them to come out with PSBOX, that's essentially an easy modular gaming station, then they can compete against each other and 3rd parties on hardware parts and subscription services. It would be meant to last forever, so if it breaks you just get it repaired. 8f your uncomfortable swapping parts, bring it to the repair guy. If you don't know what parts play together correctly, bring to repair guy for upgrade.
Essentially all the products where the following is true:
(cost of parts + cost of repair work) is comparable to the cost of the new product. (that means ≥ or slightly lower)
All those features you would like are great but hurt the profits so you won't get them, sorry.
I don't know how it is in other areas of technology but in the automotive electronics world, a big barrier to re-use and repair is mostly poor record keeping. When an OEM makes a car, they buy subsystems from suppliers such as Bosch, Continental and Valeo. These mechatronic assemblies contain software that is often completely opaque to the OEM, never mind the end user. Even if you did want to repair the sensor or whatever has gone wrong, you wouldn't be able to access the diagnostic interface without specialist tools and documentation. This barrier is deliberately and cynically inserted by witholding the information. Our machines are not made to be repaired because it is less profitable and profit decides every decision in capitalism.
I agree - though it's a short sighted vision.
If you aim for a lower margin and a longer product lifecycle, you'll make more in the long run. For example, creating a system designed for compatibility, easy upgrading, and repair would reduce production costs and shift profit from repairs to incremental upgrades (e.g. pc building).