this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
588 points (96.8% liked)

Technology

59366 readers
4295 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

After decades of messy, thoughtless design choices, corporations are using artificial intelligence to sell basic usability back to consumers

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Something like the ~~Linux~~ unix philosophy of doing 1 thing and doing it well comes to mind. FOSS no less.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That philosophy has never been successfully been applied in the GUI space and especially not in the Linux world. Bash/Shell gets away with it because it has pipes and scripting that allow you to plug different apps together to form something bigger. In the Windows world they tried something like that with OLE and NeXTSTEP did something with DisplayPostscript, but none of it stuck around to become a foundational layer for GUI apps the way pipes are for command line tools. These days all GUIs are back to being monolithic blobs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Begs the question for gui's then or?

I always wonder what another interaction scheme would look like if it weren't for "click", I've always wondered about tunnels or roads, like we do in real life, to continuously travel toward a destination, rather than discretely click.

Didn't have to be this way. CLI is underrated as any computer dev knows, power is in the knowledge. How about we apply the AI search problem to cli commands, what happens then?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I always wonder what another interaction scheme would look like if it weren’t for “click”, I’ve always wondered about tunnels or roads, like we do in real life, to continuously travel toward a destination, rather than discretely click.

There is the filter graph or node graph, found in things like Unreal Blueprints, Blender or ComfyUI. That's kind of the GUI version of a pipe and even quite a bit more powerful as you can have multiple inputs and outputs. But it's just something individual apps implement, it's not something any OS has as a native primitive.

For something a little more CLI-like, there is Archy, which is kind of like Emacs, where programs are just commands that operate on the same bit of data, not complete separate things, but that never made it past some prototypes and it's hard to see how it could work for the whole OS, where you have to deal with a wide variety of file and data formats. It had a commercial predecessor with Canon Cat in 1987, but that also ended up a dead end.

Another thing is Project Xandau, this is more of an alternative to the WWW than just a GUI/OS, but it would have had some neat properties like links to and quotes from other documents being actual references to those documents, not copy&paste. But again, nothing but prototypes.

Unix shells just assume everything is text, which makes all the small tools possible. But the GUI world contains a lot more than just plain text, which makes it difficult to come up with any universal scheme that can have the same flexibility. Even HTML, which is the closed thing to an universal data format in the modern GUI world, fails quite miserably here as, as it ends up being just a format for content consumption, not a format that is used in the creation and management of the data.

At the current pace we'll have AGI long before we have any real innovation in GUIs. Will probably end up with StarTrek like interface sooner or later where you just say what you want and the AI figures out how to get it, ChatGPT already isn't that far off and can handle a lot of simple grep/sed like tasks quite well, even shell one liner can be produces with a reasonable rate of success. What's is a way to let it access and operate on local data.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sweet, thanks for the write up. Do you play with anything tool wise on this, I mean I constantly ask chatgpt for bash and python programs / logic, but that HTML idea sounds sorta fun. Where would that lead? Should it be even more standadized?

You have any other such methodologies that you seem to hold onto other than Unix, that are atomic and simple? Any fun blogs etc? I love stuff like this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Where would that lead?

That's the billion dollar question. Whoever figures that out and builds it will be the next Microsoft/Google/Apple/...

Microsoft, Adobe and a lot of other companies are starting to patch some AI features into their apps, but the thing that makes ChatGPT so interesting is that it is universal, it can generate code, cooking recipes and write short stories and it can do all of that at once. Having an AI be stuck in a single app feels limited compared to that. But at the same time ChatGPT itself is locked in its own little text-window, which is limiting it as well. ChatGPT-style AI that can operate like a full OS, that would be the holly grail and I am sure plenty of companies are working on something like that.

Not sure about blog, but here are a couple of random vaguely related books and videos on the topic:

I find the older stuff especially interesting as it has a more clean-slate approach to interface design and isn't stuck in modern conventions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

So glad I asked. Thanks a lot, right up my alley!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's the UNIX philosophy, not the Linux philosophy. That idea predates Linux by like a decade.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apologies, but I'll also take it since Linux is a subset of Unix. But right you are, it originates there.. But is Linux the most interaction we have with Unix like OS in this day and age?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Probably. Mac is Unix like but basically all server infrastructure is running on Linux.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's going away with people like poettering running the show.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

There's a lot to dislike about systemd, and some things to like. Most big Linux distributions are using it now; in regards to this comment though, systemd is a fast executable trying to handle many core system jobs at once. Instead of Cron, openRC startup scripts, networkmanager for networking... Systemd is trying to do it all.