this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
513 points (94.0% liked)

World News

39011 readers
3176 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

No, it has almost nothing to do with religion. The only part of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis that actually tangibly relates to a religious dispute, is the contesting claims over Jerusalem (because it's holy to both Judaism and Islam).

Literally the entire rest of the conflict is based on competing nationalist claims.

Yes, even though Hamas is yelling "Allahu-akbar". Believe it or not, they're not fighting because of their religion, they're fighting because of their political goals (namely in Hamas' case AFAIK the destruction of Israel). They do also happen to be religious, but the primary conflict is a political one.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Hamas's goals are both political and religious.

They're explicitly fighting to establish a Muslim theocracy, under sharia law.

It's not akin to something like the American revolution, where you had a number of religious people fighting to establish a secular country.

It's more like the Maccabean revolt against the Selucids, where the Jewish leaders were the priests, and ended with the establishment of the Hasmonean dynasty where the high priest became king.

Would you really argue that the Maccabean revolt had nothing to do with religion?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's fair. Religion can be a very important part of both identities.

However, I would like to stress that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not directly motivated by religious differences. As in, it's not a case of "their religion is different! GET EM!". The direct problem isn't that the other side has a different religion, it's that the other side essentially has competing land claims, and a competing nationalist vision.

Since religion is an important part of Hamas' identity (and possibly of some factions in Israel, I'd guess), that affects how each side frames the conflict, and what some of their means and ends are. But the key issues of the conflict have to do with things like land borders and economic conditions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The direct problem isn't that the other side has a different religion, it's that the other side essentially has competing land claims, and a competing nationalist vision.

Right.

But those nationalist visions aren't entirely secular in origin. For both Hamas and religious zionists, they're rooted in their religion.

This isn't religiously motivated violence the same way that the Spanish Inquisition was. But religion is pretty deeply baked into the conflict, in some very important ways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This isn't religiously motivated violence the same way that the Spanish Inquisition was. But religion is pretty deeply baked into the conflict, in some very important ways.

You know? I think that sums it up nicely.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

They do not want to just destruct Israel, they want to kill all Jewish people and want a purely Muslim country. Anti-semitism in the area existed before Israel was created and is a reason why it was created in the first place.

It's just often ignored because Jews aren't a group that people sympathise with. There are also many more Muslim people and even hinting that you do not support everything Palestine does, as a Muslim or not, can make you a target for lots of hate. There are even people who will tell you that you "aren't a real Muslim" if you support a two-state-solution.