this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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The Israeli rescue service Zaka says its paramedics removed more than 260 bodies from a music festival that came under attack by Hamas militants.

The total figure of bodies found is expected to be higher, as other paramedic teams were also working in the area and Zaka added that the bodies “haven’t all been collected yet”.

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out. Many hid in nearby fruit orchards or were gunned down as they fled.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 year ago (18 children)

I had been pretty much on the Palestinian side of the conflict for some time.

This attack has absolutely burnt any goodwill I had for the Palestinian cause. If Mexico attacked America in this manner, we would likely own everything south of the Gulf of California.

I cannot fathom what Hamas thought would come of this.

[–] [email protected] 157 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Palestine" is not the one that did this. Hamas is a terrorist group, and their actions do not justify the fact that the Israeli government operates an apartheid state where people are given rights, status, and property on the basis of race, and also participates in the slaughter of innocent people.

This isn't a "whoever's worse should lose" situation. Israel commits human rights violations and Hamas is a terrorist group.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Hamas is the governing body of Palestine.

It was Palestine who did this.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Strictly speaking, it's the governing body of Gaza, which hasn't held elections in well over a decade. The West Bank is governed by the party Fatah, which is much less militant.

There is, however, the awkward truth that the West Bank has also not held elections in a long time, precisely because Hamas would probably win them.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At last count, Hamas had something like a 75 percent approval rating in Gaza.

The support among all Palestinians is just over 50 percent.

Only 14 percent support the opposition party.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago

By this logic all Iranians support their current Islamist government, which everyone and their mother knows to not be true.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

Do you support everything your government does?

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's like saying when Republicans do something stupid. It's America. It's not. There's far more going on. And that's just disingenuous.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The lack of nuance displayed around here sometimes is truly disturbing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

"Them versus us" mentality is very prominent in modern society and it's only gotten worse. Not just in the context of conflicts, it's a general problem.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago

Hamas is the governing body of Gaza. They don't control the West Bank where the majority of Palestinians live.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hate the phrasing "terrorist group" here. Not because what happened here wasn't an atrocity, but because people generally refuse to call state-backed violence "terrorist" violence. The word terrorism is incredibly broad, easily describing a ton of things Israel does. Yet, we refuse to call them a terrorist organization.

Israel slaughtered hundreds of protesters 4 years ago in Gaza.

Israel and Egypt have been blockading the Gaza strip in violation of the GCIV since 2007.

In 2014, a triple-homicide was committed. Israel claimed it was Hamas, and arrested hundreds of Palestinians. Hamas sent rockets into Israel, killing 2 people, and Israel initiated Operation Protective Edge, killing thousands of Palestinians.

Not to mention the entire Israel-Palestine conflict can be traced back about 100 years, where imperialist Britain endorsed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine in the Balfour Declaration. Eventually leading to the formation of Israel in the late 40s and the subsequent ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, forcing nearly a million natives to move to make way for Israel.

"terrorism" is politically charged language with the intent of making us sympathize with a certain side. Of course we'll side with the "Israel state" and against the "Hamas terrorist group". The language used to describe these groups already prescribes how we should view them. Western media will never describe Israel's atrocities as terrorist actions, so people will dismiss the slaughter of tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinians as "just war".

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[–] [email protected] 116 points 1 year ago (16 children)

We shouldn't conflate the people of Isreal with the extremist State of Isreal, we shouldn't conflate the people of Palestine with Hamas. Atrocities have been committed on both sides and each one is an atrocity, but the fact remains that the Palestinian people are living under an apartheid and therefore should be supported despite acts committed by extremists in it's name. This situation shouldn't be reduced to a simplistic one-sided team sport. Palestine still needs liberating.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hamas isn't a rational actor fighting for a free Palestine; their one and only goal - literally written into their charter - is to eradicate every Jew from the land by force.

Every Jew they kill is a victory for them; there's nothing more to it.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (10 children)

The us doesn't hold Mexico or Mexicans in an open air concentration camp we regularly demolish buildings in with war munitions for simple allegation with no due process.

I'm going to bet it's going to come out that this is essentially Iran and other countries sending mercs to act as Hamas just as the last major offensive was.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The native Americans would beg to differ about how the United States treated the people who were here before them.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I'm talking about Mexico today currently as was the person I replied to, and yes as a native I'm aware how shitty the us still treat its native populaces.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

The us doesn't hold Mexico or Mexicans in an open air concentration camp

True. The concentration camps on and near the US-Mexican border aren't open air.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

There was already an article out that said Iran helped hamas.

Tehran is saying they didn’t do it. But articles from wsj and the like have said they did help.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

Dont forget the paraded naked woman that was spit on by people. Hamas are savages who are funded by Iran

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Had it been attacks on only military targets, that’d be one thing. I understand that this has been a long, drawn-out conflict and Israel has killed a large number of civilians themselves and have, meter-by-meter, been taking more land away from the Palestinians (essentially committing slow-motion genocide). I get that, Israel the country isn’t innocent, BUT civilians should never be considered legitimate targets by either side in the conflict. Hamas isn’t helping their cause any with these attacks.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Hamas is not Palestine. There's why they've done this. The attack and all their actions just hurt Palestinians, and they don't care. They use Palestinians regularly as living hostages.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

This was an Iranian funded terrorist group, not a Palestinian liberation group. They claim to help the latter, but this attack makes it obvious they don't give a shit about Palestinians, they just sent to hurt Israelis. Everyone is better off if the group can be destroyed.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I'm starting to wonder if that is the point. Groups like Hamas thrive on anger and conflict.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I'm both glad and sorry that this is what made you understand, hamas was like that ever since u remember myself, Israel never start those clashes. They always shoot hiding behind kindergartens, women and elderly people while the shoot thousands of missiles.

The only difference between previous ones to this one is that the caught us off guard

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