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‘Absurd’ speed limit lands $460 fines for cyclists. Even joggers overtook them
(www.brisbanetimes.com.au)
this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Oh nice, you got to this just before I could!
I think one of the really interesting things about this article that the journalist seemed to completely brush over, but which Chris Cox mentioned more explicitly on his YouTube Community Tab post linking to this article, was this:
Emphasis mine. Apparently, these speed limits are supposed to be advisory, not binding. One questions why they use the red circle sign and not the yellow square, but still, this is good to know. It should mean that Bob* and anyone else who has received a fine should be able to get the fines overturned quite easily.
10 km/h is remarkably slow. How exactly is a bike without a speedometer not supposed to exceed that?
That is just one of the reasons that official Queensland Government documents have long suggested speed limits for cyclists should be regarded as unenforceable.
Unfortunately, QPS don't seem to have gotten the memo with regards to the Kurilpa and Goodwill Bridges.
As Chris highlighted, TMR also says it's potentially unsafe to ride a bike slower than 10kmh
How do you even keep your balance if you’re essentially pedaling at a brisk walking speed?
9-10kph is still fairly easy to keep balance without thinking about it IME. But without a speedometer, you're going to have to go slow enough that balancing is something that takes effort if you want to stay under that speed...
That should not pose a challenge to anyone not currently learning to ride a bicycle
Easily if you have any balance at all.
If there's people around then go slightly faster than they're walking and you'll be under 10km/h.
If there aren't people around then IMO it shouldn't matter as much as long as you're not taking the piss, just like it shouldn't matter if you're doing a bit over the limit on an empty highway.
I'd really like to see the speeding fines formally challenged in some way. You hear stories from cyclists that they or their mates have had them overturned, but I haven't seen any actual evidence of this. Maybe it's the case that police just choose not to proceed when the fines are challenged, and avoid setting a formal precedent in the courts.
It would also be interesting if this specific case was challenged. Like you say, it sounds like the 10km/h is supposed to be advisory, but the sign they have used is a regulatory sign which can be enforced by a literal reading of the rules. Not sure if it would hold up in court, and might come down to the judge's attitude towards cyclists.
Sort of. As someone astutely pointed out on Facebook:
Which could be either an indication that they're intended to be advisory, or just a failure to really think things through.
Signs that have a "reasonable likeness" to standard signs are covered under s316: https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/sl-2009-0194#sec.316
Number in a red circle is likely enough for it to be considered official, but yeah I would like to see it challenged.
I wonder if the fact that it's not on a sign by itself, but combined with a bunch of other things, which could mean it's unenforceable. It reminds me of (but is nowhere near as bad as) the signs on the way in to UQ:
There are clear standard signs on the way out saying 60, but the only sign on the way in is part of a bigger sign including details about smoking, hazardous chemicals, and parking restriction hours. I've lived minutes away from the sign for a decade now and have ridden & walked past it many times, and didn't even notice that sign existed until this year after someone made a comment about the speed limits online. There's just no way you could justifiably get away with enforcing that one, given how easy it is to miss.
The ones on Kurilpa and Goodwill are better than this, but they still mix the (advisory?) speed limit in with other stuff in a way that you could argue is confusing.
Wow that sign is extra ridiculous. I think most people would struggle to read it standing right in front of it let alone driving past.
s316 does give a lot of leeway e.g.
The point where it becomes substantially different is pretty subjective, which IMO shouldn't be a thing when you're talking about road rules, but it's sadly not the only example.
If they want a 10kph speed limit they should probably make it a pedestrian only bridge. 10kph is simply way too slow a speed to safely manage a bike.
Yeah at that point put up a 'Cyclists dismount' sign and stop being a dickhead