this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 182 points 1 year ago (21 children)

Everyone here is arguing the benefits of prohibition. I'm just interested to know how much money Rishi (and/or his family members/friends/donors) have invested in vaping and nicotine alternatives.

[–] [email protected] 101 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It always confuses me to learn that when people want to ban smoking it somehow means ban "cigarettes" and not "nicotine"

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Because smoking is WILDLY more harmful than vaping.

Yes vaping has SOME health risks, but it's like saying drinking tea and drinking four loko are just as bad because they both have caffeine

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Bro what tea are you drinking that has nicotine

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can only imagine they meant caffeine, another common drug that's heavily abused but a little more socially accepted

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How much did big coffee pay you to make this comment? I bet that link installs covfefe!

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Nicoteane 😉

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Well what's wrong with nicotine? In itself it's not worse than booze. It's all the other crap they add that makes it so terrible

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Hi from the depths of a nicotine addiction and struggling to quit. Its a worthless chemical that gets more expensive everyday and my brain SCREAMS at me for a fix if I try to go more than even a few hours. At least heroin gets you high.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

And even when you break free for the most part the chemical which is classified as a poison will make you crave it years later.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Every time I smell somebody smoking I need a pouch or I'll go ask for a bum

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Stay strong on your recovery friend 💪

Thank you for your comment, this is always my biggest beef with those defending nicotine (smoking/vaping).

It's like, WHAT DO YOU EVEN GAIN FROM IT?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I switched to CBD only vape juice and it helped!

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

not worse than booze.

is not doing your argument any favors.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean I'm no expert but I do have some knowledge on the subject.

The difference is how you injest it. Our stomachs are much more resilient than our lungs. Your stomach is, for all intents and purposes, a sac of acid that dissolves mostly anything you put in it, your lungs on the other hand literally only do 1 thing all day and it's breathe air. There are different qualities of air of course, and microparticles in it that could cause harm, but on the whole it's more or less all the same.

Its like dumping garbage into a sink vs. a paper bag. The sink will get disgusting, and you may end up with a clogged drain, messed up pipes, or worse. But at the end of the day if you just clean the mess and don't do it too often it will probably be fine. The paper bag on the other hand is gonna get Soggy, gross, and start falling apart in your hands. You can dry it out but it will never quite be the same..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

There are different qualities of air of course, and microparticles in it that could cause harm, but on the whole it’s more or less all the same.

Absolutely, and that's the problem. The same argument you just posed could also be used against intentionally smelling flowers, or sticking your nose over a pot of boiling broth to smell that chicken deliciousness.

We don't know that vaped nicotine is more harmful than most things we breathe. In fact, I'd say there are non-drug things people do that we already know to be worse than vaping. Ever go camping? The smoke from that fire is worse than vaping, worse than almost any substance you might want to smoke.

So the question is how bad vaping (the action, not the drug) is. Is it as bad as sniffing a rose, as bad as lighting a scented candle? As bad as incense? As bad as a campfire? If, as many suspect, it's near the beginning of that scale, then the only critique we can rightly have is towards the substance vaped. If it's near the end of the scale, we kinda need some research to support that claim.

Its like dumping garbage into a sink vs. a paper bag

As of yet, the medical and scientific community have not found solid evidence that it's "like...garbage" at all if you don't like it on fire.

Which is where things get complicated. Because it MIGHT be terrible for you. Or it might not be bad at all.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you kidding? Booze is incredibly harmful!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Yup, and it's allowed and easily accessible

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

In the US it's the opposite, which is absolutely bizarro land. Want to ban vapes but not cigarettes.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Well, nicotine isn't the part of smoking that causes cancer

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (13 children)

But it's the part that is addictive and keeps you smoking.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If addiction is a problem, should the general use of caffine be banned then? Thats why its kinda odd to specifically ban nicotine.

Choosing to ban specifically nicotine and not caffine is as silly as the idea that cigarettes should be legal but weed shouldnt.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

Because probably it was defined as burning, not usage of nicotine

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nicotine is one of the safest stimulants we know, up there with caffeine in terms of safety. There's little meaningful reason to ban nicotine. You're more likely to harm yourself with any number of other things we readily allow.

The addiction potential of nicotine alone is also far lower than people assume, because smoking is highly addictive both due to the rituals and the other substances involved. I tried to get used to nicotine via patches years back to use as a safe stimulant, and not only did I not get addicted, I couldn't get used to it (and I was not willing to get myself used to smoking, given the harm that involves). That's not to say you can't develop addictions to patches or vapes etc. too, but much more easily when it's as a substitution for smoking than "from scratch".

Restrictions on delivery methods that are harmful or not well enough understood, and combining nicotine with other substances that make the addiction and harm potential greater, sure.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Nicotine is one of the safest stimulants we know, up there with caffeine in terms of safety. There's little meaningful reason to ban nicotine.

this is from a 2015 article i found on the NIH library:

Nicotine poses several health hazards. There is an increased risk of cardiovascular, respiratory, gastrointestinal disorders. There is decreased immune response and it also poses ill impacts on the reproductive health. It affects the cell proliferation, oxidative stress, apoptosis, DNA mutation by various mechanisms which leads to cancer. It also affects the tumor proliferation and metastasis and causes resistance to chemo and radio therapeutic agents. The use of nicotine needs regulation. The sale of nicotine should be under supervision of trained medical personnel.

source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/

in case you think i might be cherry picking, here’s something from johns hopkins, and here’s a source from the cdc. here’s something recent from harvard for good measure.

edit: i should be clear that the other sources don’t say exactly the same things as the NIH one, but they do talk about how nicotine itself is very addictive, and they talk about some of the harm it can cause

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I tried to get used to nicotine via patches years back to use as a safe stimulant, and not only did I not get addicted, I couldn't get used to it

Well of course not. You weren't getting the dopamine rush of a large acute dose rushing from your lungs directly to your brain in a matter of seconds.

What the heck kind of hot take is this?

Regardless, the dangers – including ease of addiction – are well-known and are scientifically proven. Your anecdata of one does not change that.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of the alternatives are already owned by Big Tobacco

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

You can go EU-way and say that all vapes should be rechargable(in both meanings), repairable and intercompatible. Basically opposite of what Big Tabacco does.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Disposable vapes should be banned.

Though even the reusable ones generate a decent amount of waste between coil assemblies that get replaced and the plastic bottles the juice comes in. I mean, I hope we eventually get to managing waste at that level, though I'm not holding my breath since it would require huge changes to the way we handle food logistics, which eclipses vape juice waste by a lot per person.

But the disposable ones are ridiculous.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You can build your own coils and mix your own liquid. Me and my mate both do it it's far cheaper and better for the environment, not too hard either once uve learnt the basics of materials and ohms n all.

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