this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2023
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When I was growing up it was never about tolerating intolerance. It was about dragging it out into the sunlight so you could kill it. They have a right to say anything they want so we can make an example of them and they don't go into hiding and do dumb shit.
Of course that depended on the mainstream leadership believing in democracy and not leaning into extremism. Because the GOP has switched sides on democracy it's a liability now instead of a strength. A swing too far from the laws of England our founders meant to forestall.
What are you on about, mate? This is the same sort of rhetoric you see form the GOP, "Make America great again."
Dude, they literally took the Capitol building in an attempt to prevent the election results from being certified. If the GOP didn't want to back Trump after that I'd respect that. But they fell in line. They're okay with that. Which means they are not okay with democracy. There's no democracy without free elections.
Do you think I'm defending the GOP?
Well you're either defending them or defending tolerance of them. So take your pick.
No, I'm accusing your "things used to be better" rhetoric for being the same as their "make America great again" rhetoric.
Amusing, when exactly was this utopian culture in existence because as far as I'm aware the last 2000 years of society directly disagree with you.
Who said anything about a utopia? I'm talking about one aspect, a belief in an American Democracy/Republic (I know the D word triggers some people out there and that's not the conversation right now). If you read our founders writing they considered public debate to be the best way to maintain that project because the previous government would jail you for criticism. That's it. That's the reasoning and context. Nobody claimed it was perfect
I'm aware, what period of time are you speaking of.
You need to narrow down your founding fathers since approximately a third were openly and objectively anti democratic.
The period of time regardless of what era you choose is not as you portray it.
Narrow your argument says the dude who’s made 0 actual claims and instead chooses to do the old “you’re just wrong” approach straight out of the gate.
Thanks for the empty conversation
This period of time has not existed in recorded human history point blank period.
We choose issues and we pursue those issues but that state of affairs where injustices are inherently dragged out into the light has never existed and certainly not in the United States.
Shit if you're 60 you've lived through literal systemic racism which has existed for what 300 years and still exists. You'd also have lived in a time where a woman needed an adult male related to her to sign so she could get a bank account.
Take off the nostalgia binders boss.
Are you living under a rock?
What do you mean we’ve never dragged out issues into the light so they can be handled?
Antifa?
Martin Luther King Jr?
I’m done with this conversation, I’m losing brain cells by the second
Nope just on one.
I mean exactly as I said, you're blinded by nostalgia.
That is certainly a question just not one anyone could answer, what do you have against antifa.
Famously publicly assassinated for dragging things out into the light, good point....
Well don't huff gas then boss.
You just dodged every counter point I made with unrelated commentary.
We drag bullshit into the light all the time so we can fucking stomp it out. Just like antifa and other groups do, just like MLK did, just like the fucking Dead Kennedies.
You’re a really bad troll. Like, I could get more rustled sitting in a Roblox server or the comment section of a hooked on phonics video. I’m sorry you feel the need to hide in chaos and hatred to hide your fear and self loathing.
See ya later alligator!
Not sure to what actually he's refering to but he's not wrong though. The foundation of ours "western liberal democraties" wasn't really the ideal we have today about what democracy is or even worst it wasn't either the preffered regime of a large part of the rulling classes at that time.
In order to not have an empty conversation :
The Political Power of Words: The Birth of Pro-democratic Discourse in the Nineteenth Century in the United States and France
“I don’t know what he’s talking about but he’s right”
Nah fam.
I'am pretty sure you get what I mean. I can't speak in the name of the guy and since he didn't developed his point or give references I can only assume what he mean't and I can be wrong, yet the statement in itslef is not wrong.
I developed a bit more my point and gave you a reference that leads to more references if you find the subject interessting...
It's kind of ironic from you to complain about and empty conversation and do the exact same thing right after.
Can you blame me? I can’t read your mind but your opening fucking statement to me was that you don’t understand what the guy was talking about but you agree with him.
Would that make you feel confident when talking to someone who’s trying to convince you of their viewpoint.
Don’t turn your nose up at me when you’re the one who shit on the sidewalk.
Well... that's not very freedom of you.
I'm not the government. The amendment doesn't protect their speech from mine.
True. Social shaming is a very effective tool against this stuff. I draw a hard line at laws that stop it, but I see your point.
This is one of the wisest things I've read.
You may have not read much.
Of course that is freedom. It's the freedom of association and freedom of speech of the people appealed by the words of these bigots.
No one is free of the consequences of their words.