Original Toot: https://strangeobject.space/@silvermoon82/110969122337810598
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
1337 points (86.7% liked)
Asshole Design
1192 readers
1 users here now
Nothing comes before profit -- especially not the consumer.
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Google keeps taking L's and firefox keeps taking W's. If they keep going maybe firefox will be most used browser again
How to make people care, though
A few days ago, a friend asked me what browser I was using, a question he asked me in a genuine manner of getting my opinion. When I asnwered that I was using Firefox, he - again, what seemed to be genuine - wanted to know why. Knowing that he likes to use adblockers, I then told him about Google's recent attempts of attacking an open web, specificly mentioning ManifestV3 and WEI API and how they are a potential threat to his use of adblockers.
"Well, I use ublock origin on chrome and it still works, so I'll keep using that."
Apparently, I am not convincing enough.
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox
Unless they sort out their funding (find someone that is not Google for majority of their money), people shouldn't care.
I don't understand. You think people shouldn't care about privacy? You think people shouldn't care about one or two massive corporations having complete control over the internet?
Explain.
I think his point is that as long as Google is the primary funding source for Mozilla it's not worth relying on Firefox because there's always the risk Google will demand Mozilla capitulates and tows the line. Once/If Mozilla secure independent funding then they can be 'trusted'
Oh, I see. For some reason, I thought they were referring to content creators and others who profit from Google ads or something like that.
And yeah, there's a lot that Mozilla's corporate branch needs to sort out, but Firefox and its forks are the only viable alternatives to chromium browsers right now, so people should still care about that.
"Perfection is the enemy of progress" ... or something like that
🤔 So why can't we just make our own browser then?
Making a browser isn't terribly hard, and there's dozens of 'browsers' (see nyxt, qutebrowser, vimb, brave, vivaldi, etc). Making a browser engine is hard, and expensive, which is why all of the alternatives i've used are either chromium or webkit based. The webkit ones seem to crash on anything with complex javascript. The chromium engine ones work great, however that doesn't stop Google from making changes to the engine which people are up in arms about.
Browser engines are very, very, very, very very hard to make and maintain.
See: Opera and Microsoft Edge, which formerly ran on bespoke engines until they converted to Chromium because no one would support their browser.
It doesn't matter, we literally have no choice. We either accomplish something very hard in our lives or suffer. And life is very very unkind to the indolent and downtrodden.
Not at all. They should find an alternative that cannot be just unplugged on demand.
Mozilla cannot be unplugged on demand. That would cause Google to become a monopoly, and they would be held to extreme harsh laws by the EU. Like in the case of IE6 back in the day.
Google does not want that, so they donate to Mozilla to keep Firefox as a competitor. And Firefox has to do jack shit in return other than exist.
The only way Firefox could be unplugged is if a new non-chromium browser becomes one of the big browsers.
This is all technically correct. Although I think it's a little naive to say that a corporation "cannot" do something today. There are lots of things they technically cannot do yet it happens on daily basis.
I hate that I have to keep chrome on my machine because some sites I visit don’t work well, or at all, on Firefox.
I've heard a lot of people mention this recently and I must live a charmed life because I've never had this happen. There was I think maybe, once where I was having a problem with a site and it said that I needed to use a browser like chrome so I begrudgingly did and it still didn't work so I don't count that as an example and other than that, I've just never seen it. In fact I'm pretty sure it's not since about 2001 that I've seen any website give me shit with only working on certain browsers and that was sites designed to work on IE6 or something.
Just had it happen yesterday with the the students loan simulator. It wouldn’t work on Firefox and kept getting hung and freezing. Opened it in chrome and it worked perfectly first time.
It’s not common, but enough that I keep chrome installed for now.
I've used several sites that just won't scroll in Firefox. Coursera is awful for this and a lot of job sites seem to use the same library because they have the exact same issue
When someone sends me links to instagram on my phone, firefox mobile can't play the thing, I'm forced to open the link in chrome to watch the video. There are lots and lots of websites and webapps that don't work or barely open on firefox. I'm forced to regularly open every week a few links on chrome/chromium on my computer as well. Although the amount as reduced a lot, some years ago it was worse.
The most annoying thing is the website that insist on displaying a banner everytime you visit to tell you that it won't work on Firefox. And then it works perfectly fine
Brave or ungoogled chromium are other options
both are still just chromium and as such still subject to google's bullshittery like amp, manifest v3 and web integrity
Use brave
That's just chrome with a hat on and does nothing to help reduce the encroachment of Google as the internet's sole provider
But it is more private than chrome and makes heavy modifications for privacy/freedom's sake it is definitely better than actual chrome if you have to use something chromium based
it's literally made by an adtech company. you're falling for marketing hype
seeing as no one has delivered proof so far i would argue that thats not the case.
i mean one can literally check for themself (even i, if i could be bothered)
https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/brave-launches-ad-and-rewards-platform-pitting-the-browser-versus-ad-tech/
literally the 4th sentence.
funnily enough you said its made by an adtech company yet the source you provided says its browser against adtech
It’s still chromium based, which I’m trying to get away from as much as possible.
and here i am stuck using chrome, firefox doesn't install properly. i've tried a bunch of times. i have a chromebook.
Do you need ChromeOS? If not i suggest installing linux.
Ngl seems sus that firefox won't install in ChromeOS
This was suspicious back when IE became incorporated to File Explorer circa Windows 98.
Now it's just business.
i tried installing linux but i don't have enough memory for it. my storage is small (32 gigs).
How much memory do you have?
Less than 10 gigs free. Ram is 4gigs.
4 gigs should be enough for a distro. depending on how far you are willing to go you can even end up with 1 GB or less ram usage at idle. and storage shloudnt be a problem either. i had some distros that take up like 4 gig (storage, not memory)
the linux that i downloaded was over 10 gigs storage. how were you able to find something for 4 gigs?
Well that's the thing, i gave up on convenience. Basically you have to use a distro with less stuff included and add only the stuff you need.
You can google/bing/[whatever search engine you use] something like "lightweight/small distro".
I for example am running arch. In arch you only have a terminal and have to install almost everything yourself. Like your desktop, apps, etc.
Now this can be a hassle but also a great learning opportunity.
If you want to go this route i recommend you use arch with the archinstall script at first (search youtube for arch install with script or something like that) and learn try the system. Now if you want you can try to install it the "arch way" (without script) using the arch wiki as reference (even i struggle with that even tho i've already done so)
wow... well - if my career path doesn't work out and i'm curious about computer science? (idk what this is), i'll look into it.
If you've relatively new to Linux installation or you're not well versed to, or would rather not, compile from source or mess with config files often, I wouldn't recommend you start with Arch. Once you're ready to learn on a more manual system, Arch is your frienenemy.
I usually recommend Linux Mint (Cinnamon) for those coming from Windows or Ubuntu Budgie for those coming from Mac, but those two may be too hardware intensive for the Chromebook.
Look here to get started with lightweight distros. I've used all of them, and they all have their pros and cons, but are all worth checking out as daily drivers. To put it in perspective, I have antiX running on an IBM ThinkPad T20 with 256mb of RAM, and it's running as smooth as butter. The other day, I even ran a modern USB mouse with 0 issues and 0 wait (whereas Win10 spent a good minute or two installing drivers before I could use the mouse).
Another great starting point is Distro Chooser.
Sounds like an anti trust lawsuit waiting to happen tbh
It's in the name lol