SneerClub

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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

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I haven't seen people wilfully misunderstand all possible criticism of them so hard since the last time rationalists hit the headlines, with Scott Alexander (old.reddit.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I was incorrect; the paper is about famine and aid in Bengal.

NSFW

Here is a PDF of Singer's paper. On p4 you can see the closest he gets to actually doing arithmetic. At that point he does not notice the problem I pointed out; he only notes that we can contribute labor instead of money, without considering that money is what compensates laborers. On p7 he admits that utilitarianism does not give a complete analysis, because it cannot predict a time when charity will no longer be necessary; however, he does not note that many charities are set up to provide eternal grift, including some of the biggest humanitarian-aid charities in the world.

Bonus sneer! Quote from Singer's paper (p9):

Another, more serious reason for not giving to famine relief funds is that until there is effective population control, relieving famine merely postpones starvation. … The conclusion that should be drawn is that the best means of preventing famine, in the long run, is population control. It would then follow from the position reached earlier that one ought to be doing all one can to promote population control (unless one held that all forms of population control were wrong in themselves, or would have significantly bad consequences). Since there are organizations working specifically for population control, one would then support them rather than more orthodox methods of preventing famine.

Isn't Singer so polite to leave us an escape hatch just in case we happen to "[hold] that all forms of population control [are] wrong in themselves"? But we have enough experience to know now that sterilization (USA), rules against too many children (CCP), and straight-up forced starvation (USSR) are inhumane. So while his ignorance could be acceptable in the 70s, I think that our half-century of intervening experience shows that he was, uh, naïve.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I suspect that was simply Singer's nod to religious opposition to voluntary contraception and he wasn't necessarily suggesting that the things you list are viable options.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t really get the sneer here, he mentions population control at a time when it was widely believed that overpopulation was a looming problem

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

that the eugenics was mainstream doesn't make it not eugenics tho, or mean that it wasn't bad then too

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, but Singer does mean stuff like “supply birth control to people who don’t have birth control” and “make them rich and educated so they have fewer kids” which eugenics or not is a real policy response by governments which had to deal with famine pursued

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

singer's a fucking eugenicist though (as any disabled person would tell you).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right, so go after him for that!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

i mostly keep noting that he's not a serious person and should not be treated as such.