this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
343 points (96.5% liked)
World News
32513 readers
382 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don't want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky's response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, and I'm certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I've been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy's popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader -- I like the guy, and I'm inclined to trust his judgement. He's done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don't.
I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the "ethical ideals of the EU" are.
Do you think they're different than the ones codified in Article 2?
Except those Russian orcs
Sending conscripts to into the front lines instead of seeking a diplomatic solution is quite literally a death penalty
Doesn't seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.
They didn't just ban them they also seized all their assets.
if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won't) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the 'aid' they've received—from the 'highly ethical' EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.
and we already know what the cost of these foreign ''aid'' packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.
But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?
GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don't doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.
Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao
By that measure, Xi is also implicated
No?
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/10/4/chinese-politician-in-pandora-papers-looked-to-trade-us-stocks
It's overly amplified by liberal propagandists, but there's at least enough of a connection to make a note of
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35962326
"Relatives" is a very purposely vague term to use
I have so many relatives that I've never met or only met less than 3 times
If the connections were close relatives even to first degree cousins, they would've said so
You don't see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?
I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he's kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.
NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don't believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.
Russia already invaded ukraine and took control of crimea 5 years before Zelensky became president.
To view this invasion as totally separate and then blame Zelensky for getting invaded is kinda insane to me.
Zelenski is a trained actor.
Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn't a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He's actually a pretty cool guy in real life.
Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You're judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your "ok to be voted into presidency" test?
No. I am comparing an actor playing a part to an actor playing a part.
Career doesn't matter. Its who holds their purse strings that matters. Same man who paid Zelensky the actor, paid for Zelensky the president's campaign. (and also funded neo-nazi paramilitary groups) Same boss. Just a bigger billing. Same job different character.
Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.
A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.
The people moaning about people from Romania and Bulgaria are neither the ones profiting from their cheap labour here nor are they who calls the shots on the matter
I don't know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.
I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.
>sincere, effective, passionate leader
Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he's even interested in that, he certainly wasn't terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there's going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there's going to be a Zelenskyy who's first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!
I agree, I don't think it's particularly noteworthy except for the fact it was all regional recruitment chiefs at once.
This suggests either a high level of corruption (I don't think it would be more than other places in the conditions) or a power play between elites in the military.
Alternatively their allies have told them to do so.