this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
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Lol sure buddy.
So let's arm Ukraine to their teeths and see the russian "empire" crumble. It's overdue anyway.
Incoming: WW3!!!
Did you even read what i wrote?
There is a fundamental difference between arming a country and permanently integrating it into one geopolitical side. If you are so eager to fight in a war Ukraine can use every fighter. But it is always easy to call for other people to go to war isn't it?
Why would Ukraine need to be neutral? Russians have shown themselves to be hostile and don't respect neutrality. So fuck em.
Also the "oh you want Ukraine in NATO? Then go fight there yourself!!!!!" Is such a fucking obvious russian shill line repeated over and over and over again.
Neutral Ukraine would mean a buffer between Russia and NATO. Russia claims it feels threatened by NATOs expansion to the East. While it is understandable for countries to prefer being in NATO over under Russian influence, that is how geopolitical security works. The US would never accept say Mexico to join a Russian or Chinese military pact.
There is only two ways to get Russia out of Ukraine:
Either defeat them and drive them out, or negotiate for them to withdraw.
The latter wont happen with categorically demanding Ukraine to join NATO. The first needs much more Western support, in particular more soldiers to fight the war. When you exclude negotiating, not being willing to support your demand of fighting with your own capabilities is cynical. And that also goes to show how the support so far worked. Making grand statements, but when it came to actually giving what was necessary to Ukraine to defend itself, the West always fell short. If Ukraine had gotten proper equipment right away, the war could be over with a military win of Ukraine. Now to not only hold the line, but push back Russia, Ukraine needs far far more support, that the West is clearly not willing to give.
I want a strong Ukraine with fully territorial integrity. Maybe this can be negotiated as the costs of the war for Russia keep increasing. But this needs to offer Russia an out. Denying that out means the only two options left are a military win or military defeat of Russia. Either will be incredibly costly for Ukraine.
And I don't give two shits about buffers. Russia started this mess, let them sort it out. Russia claims a lot of shit but the reality is - they are the agressors. They had every chance of enjoying free trade, peaceful coexistence but they chose war. So now they get fucked over it. And they deserve every single second of it happening to them. Russia will fracture into a million pieces. They are getting desperate. And you don't win with "desperate" by appeasing those assholes and giving them a second chance to invade in 5 years. 40% of GDP spent on war, and they're still unable to do shit.
I like how you talk about it as if it's about game pieces on a game board. What about the people from Ukraine? How about letting them decide on which "geopolitical side" they want to live?
Which is why someone in Finland shouldn't be making statements limiting Ukraines decision space. If Ukranians decide to continue the war so they can join NATO, then that is their decision and should be supported.
This brings us back to the problem that the Western support has been lacking and now with Trump becomes even more lackluster. But the West cannot withdraw military support while demanding Ukraine to continue fighting.
As it stands Ukraine will be delivered to the Russian slaughter instead of working on actual solutions.
I read you talking about establishing a buffer zone between Russia and NATO. If this isn't limiting Ukraine's decision space over the head of Ukrainians, what is?
Ukraine, with its 1991 border in NATO!
Russia gets denuclearisation.
World peace follows.