this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
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That's fair, but if the Democrats are also running candidates that aren't viable or not running viable campaigns, then you're just compromising your principles for nothing.
It's about who has a chance of winning. If you're trying to argue that any candidate other than Harris had a chance of beating Trump in this recent election, you're kidding yourself.
I've said this before and I'll continue saying it: Trying to inject a 3rd party candidate into the presidential race is foolish. A much better tactic would be trying to push for 3rd party candidates in smaller races for local / state government, or congress. Doing that is a lot easier, and can make small incremental changes that add up over time. There simply isn't a realistic way for a third party candidate to compete in the presidential race until the voting system is changed.
Sanders and Stein would have won.
Harris never had a chance of winning. Running a far right cop for the party that is opposed to far right cops is the dumbest possible fucking move.
I'm not trying to argue that. I'm saying that it's becoming apparent that the Democratic party is in such bad shape that they had no chance to beat Trump either. If they fail to make significant changes, to their personnel and their platform, they are going to keep failing in subsequent elections. If they're going to lose anyway, then there's got to be a point where progressive Democrats start voting with some dignity for third party candidates.
A decent human being doesn't vote for the most principled candidate, they instead vote for the candidate who would hurt the fewest number of people by winning while (importantly) actually having a chance of winning.
Moral absolutism isn't moral, it results in people getting hurt, because whoever adheres to it decided for themsevles that their principles are more important than fellow human beings. The sooner you realize this, the better.
I will never vote for genocide, turns out there's at least 15 million like me. You enjoy being responsible for this genocide and any expansion of it Trump does, as you voted for it.
Now we get genocide and a president who raped kids. He gets off Scot free for his crimes now
He was always going to get away with the pointless charges, no president will ever be allowed near a jail, they know too much.
To your first point thats not worse than genocide. Genocide is genocide. It's like infinity, you can't add to infinity meaningfully.
I tend to think more genocide is worse than less genocide. Nice to see you don’t care about the rapes. Real ally to women and children.
No, genocide is genocide. Once you do it, you're no longer human. Doesn't matter more or less. As to your second point, read the username. Trump isn't the first pedo in office, he's not even the most famous. You're in the wrong country if you hate pedophiles in power, we haven't had a year where that's not the case.
Cool, but I was talking about stopping this one. Don’t you want to stop them? Sounds like you don’t
Cool, you weren't though if you voted for Harris, the candidate that promised to continue and expand genocide multiple times in the campaign trail.
If you mean pedos, that's secondary, and won't be stopped via elections. But there's yet to be a lemmy instance that allows discussing that solution.
Well now Palestine gets deleted. And a pedophile is president. You can act all high and mighty, but suffering is the wage you’ve earned for these people
Palestine was "getting deleted" either way, and I sincerely don't care about who heads up a genocidal fascist country as my life does not change.
I will still be at risk of death by police, as I am right now. I will still be working with my mutual aid group to help the vulnerable survive, as I am right now. I will still be protesting, rioting, commiting crimes for the betterment of society as I am right now.
Harris wouldnt have changed the risk factor, Trump doesn't.
The only people that would benefit from Harris over trump are moderately wealthy insulated citizens of the empire that have never known struggle. Because those of us struggling have been protesting Biden as hard as we protested trump.
I disagree with your assertion that there wasn’t a political path forward, through the democrats. That option is now gone. I don’t think there is any bridging that gap between us
Probably not, but good thing the Dems have moved so far right the Republican party is perfect for you.
Hope it was worth it, the genocide, the millions dead, the police and judicial brutality all under dem leadership.
Haha get off your rocker. Maybe if all you fuckers showed up and voted. But no, maintain your ideological purity while those in the real world suffer
"ideological purity"
And this is why you have more in common with Trump supporters than anyone even slightly left wing. You think compromising on genocide is okay.
You think doing nothing is fighting back
Whose doing nothing, besides you?
Voting for genocide to stop genocide is stupid. Even you have to know that.
Organize, help those suffering right now, meet a neighbor, go to a protest, participate in a riot. I do all of that, except the last part obviously, wink wink. That's what makes a difference. Voting for a genocidal fascist to stop a genocidal fascist does nothing. It might make you feel better if they win and only genocide poor people, and brown people, instead of you,, but effectively does nothing.
Sure thing bub
My question isn't about morality.
That's self-defeating nonsense.
It was actually self-defeating to run on a platform that got an (enthusiastically received) endorsement from Dick Cheney.
Pasting my own comment, as I really think there was a reason for this.
"I’ve been seeing a trend for the last few years and I think it explains the shift that people have been pointing out in the Democratic party. The way in which many Democrats felt railroaded into Hillary in 2016, I think the same is happening to the Republican party, albeit more unknowingly. There is a not insignificant amount of Republicans who have been disenfranchised from voting red because that’s just what you do. It all comes down to the Republican party being split by the MAGA cult, with those Republican voters wanting to return back to the status quo of red vs. blue. Of course what they don’t realize is that the culture war that the conservatives have been imposing is what created this whole situation in the first place.
Anyway, this is where Dick Cheney comes in. Yes, a representative of that culture war that brought us here, but not a MAGA cultist. An endorsement from one of the most recognized Republicans is an attempt to move back towards the classical conservatism, away from the clamoring fervor that the Trump presidency put the country in.
That is to say, if the Green Party is meant to siphon votes from Democrats, The Classical Republican Dick Cheney is meant to appeal to the votes from Moderate Republicans and maybe convince some Republican voters who would have voted red “because that’s what you do”, to instead vote for Kamala.
This isn’t to say his endorsement of her isn’t damning and that the leaders of the Democratic haven’t been shifting away from the left. Just positing that like many of us, there’s a portion of Republicans out there who are just as tired."
I wrote this pre-election results. Can probably tell. But basically Tl;Dr Cheney is a classical conservative and his endorsement was an attempt to return to the status quo pre-MAGA, as a way to hopefully return to the Republican vs. Democrat split, instead of this 4 way split between leftist, liberal, conservative, and MAGA voters.
Obviously, that didn't sit that well with the Democrats and the leftists. I get where the campaign was coming from, I don't agree and it was a bad move, but I understand it.
Cheney is one of the poster names of neoconservativism, not classical conservatism
Eh, compared to what mainstream Republicanism is like now, he might as well be Ike.
I don't think Republicans of today care to know the difference. But good to point out!