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Volodymyr Zelenskyy urges allies to stop just ‘watching’ amid North Korea threat (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Ukrainian president calls on countries to step in before troops sent to Russia by Pyongyang reach battlefield

Ukraine’s president urged allies to stop “watching” and take steps before North Korean troops deployed in Russia reach the battlefield, while the army chief said his troops were facing “one of the most powerful offensives” by Moscow since the full-scale war began.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy raised the prospect of a pre-emptive Ukrainian strike on camps where the North Korean troops are being trained and said Kyiv knows their location. But he said Ukraine can’t do it without permission from allies to use western-made long-range weapons to hit targets deep inside Russia.

“But instead … America is watching, Britain is watching, Germany is watching. Everyone is just waiting for the North Korean military to start attacking Ukrainians as well,” Zelenskyy said in a post late on Friday on the Telegram messaging app.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Who's "we"? Sounds like a proportionate response to me.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I wouldnt be presumptious enough to say we, but I would really prefer the war not escalate further. Im all in for ukraine, and definitely fuck east-ukraine, but I don't want American troops deployed in ukraine outside of advisory and training positions. I dont have great jusitifcations as to why, politics are hard, but I don't feel its the US' job to directly police the rest of the world, so Id prefer us to not directly combat other countries unless they've directly attacked us.

History certainly has a role to play here, which sucks because its always been my worst subject, but an eye for an eye seems to be at odds with peace which is obviously ideal. That is why I said my justifications arent great. It doesnt help that I do support foreign benevolent intervention, but not directly through force. And, as always, defining 'benevolent' in terms of an authoritarian regime engaging in foreign intervention of any kind is... difficult.

Edit: i forgot to mention: what we should be doing is allowing ukraine use of any non-warcrime western version of any weapon that east-ukraine is confirmed to use against them. We should also be quietly investing massive amounts of cyber resources into disabling russias nuclear launch systems and crippling putins stranglehold on their government by fucking with his finances specifically.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

As the phrase goes, Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war).

Russia doesn't care that you want peace. They don't care how nice you are. They care if they're going to lose. Putin wants power, and if he is going to lose that power he'll stop this war. There are many ways to do this, but I'm not opposed to NATO troops helping out. If Russia brings in foreign troops, that's more than enough justification for NATO to get more directly involved too.

We won't have peace by asking nicely. We'll have peace by ensuring an end to the invasion. If Russia wins then they'll continue. Ukraine winning is the only outcome that can bring peace.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The issue is that a direct war with russia would lead to the next world war guaranteed. It may not be nuclear, but it likely will. Even if it wasnt, an invasion of russia would be possibly the most difficult, drawn out, and costly war the US has ever faced.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

I don't think so. I believe Russia would say that, but I don't think that is accurate. China likely wouldn't back them up because they'd have nothing to gain. They'd rather try to gain influence over whoever takes over after Putin.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agree with you on preferring the US sending support to Ukraine in the form of equipment and strategic guidance instead of troops at this stage. European countries have a different balance of considerations due to their proximity to Russia, and I trust them to make the right choice on the level of support to provide.