this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
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Who are you talking to? The author of the article literally said "I condemn Hamas" three times in the second paragraph.
You expect me to read obvious propaganda? It's just Palestine playing the victim. Again. Because they're cowardly bastards.
Yes, I do expect people to read articles before responding to them. What is the point of using discussion-based social media if you're not here for an educated discussion on the topic? If you want to have a partisan screaming match just use Twitter.
I wouldn't bother engaging. They're not commenting in good faith, they're just trying to annoy us and waste our time.
Umm, yes? Because they literally are the victim? Of an active genocide that started in October last year, and of apartheid and colonisation that has been going on for decades.
Until Israel goes back to the 1949 borders at least (realistically, that leaves the Gaza strip insanely restricted, and the UN's 1947 plan for Gaza was so much better), and leaves Palestine alone and punishes Israeli settlers, while ceasing treating Palestinian Israelis as second-class citizens, Israel will remain by far the worse party in this scenario.
https://aussie.zone/post/14343908
But no, it's definitely Israel that are the good guys here. 🤦♂️
Nice genocide evasion script you got going there.
Idk that script was really convincing. I now think that little baby Hind deserved to die, along with all those other kids. She lived in an ethno state so, what were the Israelis to do besides ruthlessly murder her?
As we all know, the Warsaw ghetto was an ethnostate, that had to go. The slums still being bombed to the south of Beirut, the thuds which have kept me up all night? Overwhelmingly Shia Muslim. That’s right folks, another ethnostate that needs to be destroyed. By the IDF which is definitely not the arm of an ethnostate.
OK now you're just straight up trolling. Good luck with that. I don't think anyone around here is naive enough to not see through your rage baiting.
Apartheid
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B'TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Genocide
Holocaust scholar to discuss his conclusion that Gaza campaign constitutes genocide
UN Expert Says Impunity for Israel Must End as 'Genocidal Violence' Spreads to West Bank
“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza
800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating 'Crime of Genocide' in Gaza
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated
AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
Neverending Violence
Genocide seems like a strange word to keep throwing around. According to Palestinian health officials 42,000 people died. And Palestinian's population is like 5 million.
42000 dead is awful. But it's less than 1% of 1% of the population. If Isreal is trying to eliminate all of them, it'll take 1000's of years at this rate.
You are ignoring a significant amount to rationalize this as not an act of genocide
Read the full report here
I mean you can down vote me, then throw a wall of text at me that no one is going to read. But it doesn't change the reality.
40 some thousand dead out of a population 5 million people. War is truly fucked up. We don't have to change the definition of Genocide to try and make a point. It makes the argument sound fake. Like you want to force a response for fiction.
If you looked at the report, you would see exactly how it fits the international definition of genocide. The point of these definitions is to prevent genocide before it gets to the kind of scale we have seen in the past.
So the definition of genocide was changed to prevent the old definition of genocide from happening.
So it is exactly what I was arguing. You just changed the meaning of the word to make your rhetoric sound worse than reality.
Honestly. No lie. This makes me wonder how else your group is changing the meaning of words to paint the picture you want people to see.
Speak plain truths, they are damning enough. Lies hurt your argument.
What are you talking about, the definition is clearly listed on page 17 of the linked report. Nothing has been changed, the point of recognizing a genocide is to stop it.
Let me be more clear?
You are lying and speaking propaganda. And it makes you untrustworthy.
When people sell things this hard, I know they are stupid or a liar. And I'm calling you a liar.
I gave you multiple resources, from different sources, that show how holocaust and genocide scholars consider this a genocide. You chose to not read them. I quoted relevant paragraphs that showed the analysis of one of those scholars and the much higher death toll. You chose to not read them. I gave an extremely detailed report by Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor and even gave the exact page that describes, in detail, exactly how this genocide fits the definition given in international law. You also chose to not read that.
Then you say that I'm a liar? I'm done talking with you
Yep, you are selling propaganda that you don't believe. I believe you are a liar of the worst kind.
Your overdramatic morale outrage is as false as all your posts.
Israel abused a dog for years and now acts surprised that the dog bit them back. I don't support HAMAS or the government of Israel. Both countries have a right to coexist peacefully. Given the history of the Israel/Palestine debacle it is hardly surprising that a group promising to destroy Israel is/was popular with a group of people oppressed by Israel. Similarly, with the election of the current Israeli government who seem to be elected to eliminate HAMAS and protect settlements in the west bank.
Let me make something crystal clear. All lives have equal worth. On October 7th ~1,200 Israeli civilians were killed, since then >40,000 Palestinian civilians. Surely no cause is worth killing civilians over. How do you justify that Israel is the good guy?
No. 1139 people were killed, 373 of which were military or security personnel. Nobody really talks about what exactly happened on October 7th anymore, but the idea that Hamas and other groups entered, killed a bunch of civilians and left does nothing but help Israel.
But the majority of people they killed were civilians. There is no good guy in this war, any attempt to simplify it to such terms is disingenuous at best.
That gets us into the whole crossfire and Israeli friendly fire thing, but that's not really what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to say that it's not as simple as "Hamas did a very bad thing to Israel"; a good part of October the 7th was resistance against Israeli occupation (and a good part wasn't, don't get me wrong, but I've noticed that this fact gets forgotten because Israeli actions deserve condemnation either way).
I'm confused what we're arguing about here, I simultaneously believe that Hamas did a bad thing to Israel and that Israel is doing a very very very bad thing (and has for a long time) to Palestine. I don't however, believe that Israel's response has been proportional, nor do I believe Israel are making any earnest attempts at a diplomatic solution. I also find it hard to see that genocide isn't their goal when they keep blowing up schools, hospitals, aid workers and journalists.
Referring to my original comment the acts on October 7 make perfect sense in the context the history of Israel and the attack on military targets can easily be justified as an act of war. I suppose what really irks me is that neither side is above targeting civilians
Yeah that's exactly what I was getting at. Not trying to defend the atrocities they committed (which are many), but at the start when they weren't as obviously committing genocide Israel was trying to paint itself as an unambiguous victim and one of their strategies was to claim all the dead as civilians and deny that the attack had any military goals, so I wanted to correct the 1200 civilians figure.
The facf they're not committing genocide right now?
Now that's just being in denial that you support bad people
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