this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2024
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United States | News & Politics

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The Fascist or the at least slightly socially progressive neoliberals

Neither are acceptable, both are genocidal regimes that are working towards WW3, Climate Collapse, and genocide. The only peaceful solution is voting third party, otherwise revolution is necessary. Taking the miniscule chance of a peaceful solution is morally correct, especially if we believe revolution to be necessary.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Meanwhile you “peacefully” increase the probability that the guy who destroyed women's reproductive rights gets voted in again.

I say you should help punish the Republicans for MAGA and once they try a moderate candidate again you can vote third party. But don't ignore the consequences of your actions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Meanwhile you “peacefully” increase the probability that the guy who destroyed women's reproductive rights gets voted in again.

Meanwhile you "peacefully" increase the probability that genocide continues, climate change continues to be ignored, and World War 3 kills us all.

I say you should help punish the Republicans for MAGA and once they try a moderate candidate again you can vote third party. But don't ignore the consequences of your actions.

What do you think fascism is? Why do you think MAGA is just a random event and not a systemic problem? Fascism is Capitalism in decline, there will be no "moderate" candidates because Capitalism is still in decline. The conditions for fascism persist, so fascism persists, and the Dems get closer to fascism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not doing anything like that, the will never be public support for a socialist candidate in the US without first changing the voting system.

I wish it wasn't like that but I'm convinced it is.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)
  1. Why do you believe there will never be public support for a Socialist candidate in the US? Where do you believe people draw their ideas from? Is the US a static, unchanging system? We know this to be false, wealth disparity is rising, the climate is changing, it's anything but static!

  2. The mainstream parties will never risk losing power intentionally, ergo there will be no change to the voting system.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Because that's how the spoiler effect works.The more support a leftist third party gets, the easier it is for the Republicans to win.

I can't tell you how to fix it, but I can tell you that an election with 10% Socialists, 40% Dems, and 50% Reps will scare people away from voting Socialists.

At least as long as MAGA is a thing and the Dems aren't seen as totally corrupt and basically the same as the Reps by the general public. And believe me: they aren't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

You didn't answer my questions. Why do you believe the US is a closed, unchanging, static system? In order for any of your analysis to make any sense, it must be immovable with no trends in metrics, in perpetuity.

Because that's how the spoiler effect works.The more support a leftist third party gets, the easier it is for the Republicans to win.

Not necessarily. Ideas change alongside the ever-changing material conditions.

I can't tell you how to fix it

Evidently.

but I can tell you that an election with 10% Socialists, 40% Dems, and 50% Reps will scare people away from voting Socialists.

Why? Trends change over time.

At least as long as MAGA is a thing

It will be for as long as Capitalism exists, getting worse. Capitalism is declining, and fascism rises when Capitalism is in decay. Only Socialism will fix it, liberalism leads to more fascism. You can't prevent MAGA by voting Dem, you strengthen it.

and the Dems aren't seen as totally corrupt and basically the same as the Reps by the general public

This is increasingly proven to be true, public opinion of both parties is declining.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

So I don't have a hat in this race because I can not vote. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how a government is formed in the United States. The odds of stopping a Democrat or Republican from not winning the 2024 presidential election are futile. If I could vote, but I can't, if I voted third party I would be putting my effort into what I know is a futile effort. That seems morally the same as ignoring it because I know the results would be identical. The only moral option I would then have is to choose the least bad option. The most moral option would be off the table for me.

Actually the president used to be less important than they seemed. The United States Supreme Court decision that president's are practically kings changes a lot. ~~The other side of this is that the president doesn't really matter. The president really only executes the will of Congress.~~ It seems to me that if you really wanted to do the moral thing, it would be changing the roots of the problem. Not a single branch. It's the hearts and minds of grass roots organizationa you want to change long before anyone walks up to a polling booth.

Just saying, as someone who can't vote.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

First off, I understand how the electoral system works. The odds are incredibly slim that a third party will win. I disagree that a Democrat victory is acceptable, because the Democrats will only push for more genocide, failed climate action, and world war 3. It isn't a matter of being "better or worse," both result in the doom of humanity. Either we push to end that electorally, or via revolution.

Organizing is also good, Claudia De La Crúz represents PSL, a party that does that more than try to win the presidency. They serve to highlight the sham of the election and gain recognition.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I wish I could tell you more because my area did that, we've done what we both agree is what needs to happen. We elected a third party candidate as our representative. Not as our president, that's insane lol. Also I don't know how what we did would apply to the United States other than just saying grass roots organizing. Saying even that much reveals more about me than I'm comfortable with online.