this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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Work Reform
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I don't think anyone is saying we need to not allow tipping, just stop the stupid idea that restaurants can pay less just because an employee is tipped. They shouldn't be reliant on the good will of people or the social pressure to tip, that should just be an extra.
I mean, I'm saying that.
To me I've never understood why sit-down restaurants should be looked at any differently to any other business. Why can't the actual price just be listed on the menu?
Like, if we've collectively decided that the actual price is 20% higher than what is listed, then let's just treat this like every other profession and raise prices by 20%.
Why are people taking orders and carrying food special? Other customer-facing positions generally don't get tips. Chefs (who make the food!) generally don't get tips.
Just pay the waitstaff a fair wage and quit the tipping!
Are you saying you think tips should be banned? Like if I offered someone a tip and they accept it should they be in trouble? Cause that's what I mean when I say no one is saying tipping should be not allowed.
I'm not sure it would be possible to change the culture any other way, since it's so entrenched.
The only restaurants I know of that were able to successfully transition to a less toxic business model for servers did so through a combination of paying servers a fair base wage ($20+ an hour) and banning tips.
Culture is tricky in that it's 'sticky' and often takes a lot of effort to change. Having a policy like 'tipping not required' would still lead to the vast majority of customers feeling obligated to tip because not tipping carries with it such a strong implication of being greedy/stingy.
I should mention that this all mostly applies to the US and that there are plenty of countries with flourishing hospitality industries where tipping is virtually nonexistent (or even seen as insulting).
I just don't see the harm with leaving it not banned. At least for me personally the problem with the culture comes from the fact that servers rely on it to make a living so if you don't do it you're denying them that. So if you fix that problem and pay a liveable wage and just allow tips as an extra then sure they might still see someone not tipping as stingy but atleast now it's not impacting their ability to make a living directly so they can't be as justifiably angry.
Cause atleast personally I haven't worked in the service industry but I have worked minimum wage at a grocery store and I remember they told us we couldn't accept extra money from customers which I always thought was dumb. I wasn't expecting people to give me extra money and it was pretty rare that it happened but occasionally a nice person would come through and offer me some extra money for helping them and I thought it was dumb I had to turn that down. It didn't make me think less of the people who didn't do that, just would have been a nice extra bonus to help me out.
It's not 1995 anymore. Most restaurants require chefs to be tipped out.
Its only the really shitty ones that dont.
From my limited experience working in restaurants, the chefs also get paid at least minimum wage if not more
Of course they do, it's the law. It's crazy to me that servers are (seemingly randomly) excluded from this and have to rely on tips.
In most major cities youd be hard pressed to find even an 'ok' position that is paying minumum wage. Most are making 20-25+tips.
Edit: the dishwasher at my restaurant makes 72k. Thats not a joke.
I've worked in a number of places as a chef (from low to high end) and that was never the case anywhere I worked. To be fair, it's been almost a decade though, so maybe I'm out of date.
Fwiw, the industry has changed. Chefs are paid on par with foh nowadays.
There is a good chance local markets differ here too.
Not wrong. The local markets i have experience with are the most populated locations in the United States. Portland, chicago, New york, miami, seattle, la, sf, atlanta.
I would imagine living in hondo, tx sucks ass but that's not because of tipping.
A ton of people, in this thread, are saying tipping should be banned/not a thing.
I haven't seen anyone say it should be banned, just not required because the person isn't making enough money to live off of just the wage they're paid. I agree it shouldn't need to be a thing but it should still be an option if you have extra money and feel generous, it just shouldn't be expected.
If the goal is to do away with tipping, I don't know of another way besides banning it that will be effective.
The provinces of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia all did away with the seperate (lesser) server wage so that all employees go by a universal minimum wage. I don't think that changed patrons' tipping habits one bit.
And servers are still reliant on the good will of people. Ain't nobody with real expenses getting by with some of these minimum wages. Not with the current cost-of-living.