this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)

What infuriates me is this:

“[T]he United States has made clear that it will block Palestinian membership and statehood until direct negotiations with Israel resolve key issues, including security, boundaries and the future of Jerusalem.”

Why does Israel get membership in the UN, if these are preconditions for membership? Israel will never agree to Palestinian membership. A stable Palestinian state will likely never exist until Israel is defeated militarily and has no choice but to accept it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

When statements don't make sense, i find it helpful to cut out any part that offends logic and see if it becomes clearer. In this case i apply it like this:

“[T]he United States has made clear that it will block Palestinian membership and statehood.

There! The other parts were extraenous fluff to soften their perceived position.

(I know you already grok their position, I'm just sayin its a hack i like.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I do not see where the statement you quoted says Israel needs to agree for Palestine to become a UN member. It says that negotiations with Israel are necessary to resolve the key issues.

And that’s a very valid point.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That’s what “membership” means in the quote

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

yes, but it will be united states blocking it, not Israel

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

If I'm reading it right, the OP meant something like this:

The US block Palestinian membership on the condition of negotiations with Israel, but don't impose the same restriction (negotiations eith Palestine) on Israel's membership. Why does Israel get to be a member without negotiation, but Palestine doesn't?

(Not taking a stance here, argue with the OP if you want to. I'm just contributing my understanding.)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Never is a strong word.

Until 1995, when Israeli PM Rabin was assassinated by a right winger, they were moving towards a two state solution, to the point of the IDF forcibly removing their own Jewish settlements from the lands of the prospective Palestinian state.

After the assassination, Netanyahu became the next PM, and has served in the position for most of the time since, asides most of a decade in the 2000s where other Likud politicians held it. He reversed the policy of settler removal.

Try not to conflate the entire country with the crazy right winger leadership they have currently. The same leadership of strongmen that catastrophically failed to keep them safe back in October, which is the one single thing such a man says he is supposed to be good at.

All that said, I also support Palestinian entry as a UN member state, and am tired of the US unfairly favoring its treaty ally in this case.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

After 50 years and heavy Palestinian concessions a state is almost established with heavy external pressure

Extremists from Netanyahus party assasinate the israeli PM. Wife of Rabin blames Netanyahu foe his death

Israel votes Netanyahu into power along with an extreme right wing cabinet and openly gets far more Genocidal than in the past

No guys this totally doesn't represent israel

This is israel. It is what is has always been. A Nazi Apartheid state.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It seems contradictory to me to say it has always been pursing genocide, when one of the elected politicians was moving in the other direction for years. A bit selective.

Perhaps we could look at the voter tallys in 1996, where Netanyahu won 1,501,023 to 1,471,566, and the events that were influencing the Israeli public at the time? It certainly doesn't help when there's 14 suicide bombings happening in Israel between 1993 and 1995 during the peace process. Being bombed generally does drive people towards militarism.

Regardless of the past, though, Israel is there now. With its nuclear arsenal, it will not be destroyed any time soon unless Iran somehow nukes it off the map through its missile defense. So, negotiation seems necessary.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

when one of the elected politicians was moving in the other direction for years. A bit selective.

Yeah and what did it result in? Same thing as every other "negotiation" from the last 75 years, More Genocidal Nazis slowly taking over Palestinian land while the Palestinians have to wait for the "peaceful negotiations".

The only difference between past israel and current israel is that current israel got so arrogant that they are forgetting to hide their Nazism. They are now flaunting what they have been doing for the past 75 years thinking themselves so much in the right that nobody will disagree with them.

Pretending that israel has ever had good-will to come to a peaceful conclusion is pure delusion. Israel is an Ethnostate deeply rooted in Apartheid. You cannot create an Ethnostate pecaefully just like the Nazis weren't peacefully expanding their Lebensraum.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

nuance won't hurt you, I promise <3

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Do we look at the Holocaust with nuance as well? Should the Jews have tried to negotiate with Adolf Hitler?

When someone decides to do Ethinc Cleansing to create an Ethnostate it's Nazi-O-Clock. All nuance goes out the window.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure about this ethnostate claim, when over 20% of Israel's citizens are of Arabic descent, and are not required to have Jewish heritage or faith. They can vote, own business and have the same legal protections as non-Arab citizens. These are not in Gaza or the West Bank, but living in Israel's internationally recognized borders.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

And there it is. From "israel wasn't always trying to steal land" turns into "well israel not really an Apartheid state".

Three comments further and I'm going to read about how there are no innocents in Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

No, there are certainly innocents in Gaza. However, there are also innocents in Israel. You may have chosen your side, but I am not fighting in this war. Frankly, it's consistently been too difficult to determine the truth.

edit: Actually, that's not true. I find I do get involved in the information side of the conflict, except I have to consistently fight against both of the sides. It's very troubling.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Last time I checked you were claiming israel is not an Apartheid state so you might want to work on that information thing a bit more before providing insightful comments

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I really don’t think you are in any place to be telling anyone to check their info, when the modlogs show that you’ve had 6 posts removed for misinformation in the past 11 days, along with being banned for antisemitism. You share op-ed nonsense and pass it off as legitimate news, and have your shit removed for that too.

You really have no place to call anyone out for their claims.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you can find me an unbiased assessment of it, from people that acknowledge Israel's claims to exist by its 1967 borders and for people of Jewish descent to move to within those 1967 borders if they want, I happily will.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I have no idea what this comment means but the goalpost is floating 500 feet in the air right now.

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