141
The Palestinian activists fighting for LGBTQ+ rights against a neverending backdrop of war
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
this post was submitted on 06 May 2024
141 points (86.9% liked)
World News
39004 readers
3264 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Isn't Palestine transphobic as fuck tho?
And? So is where I grew up in the southern US. There are states I can’t legally visit anymore if I want to piss in a public restroom. That doesn’t mean I’m okay with bombing most of the hospitals, schools, and homes there and killing tens of thousands of civilians. Anyone OK with that because they’re bigoted in some way has a fucking moral deficiency.
This doesn't make any sense - if anything it's backwards. being oppressed doesn't give anyone a free pass to oppress others. That kind of twisted logic is what Israel uses to get away with murder.
Fun fact, you can’t find anywhere in my comment that says “being oppressed makes oppressing others okay” because that’s not what it says. It says that parents potentially being bigoted isn’t an excuse to blow up their fucking children.
I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people, but the people I grew up with who are equally hostile to LGBT people don’t deserve to have their kids’ limbs blown off or killed. If the answer is “American children are simply worth more than Palestinian children” then they should just come out and say it, but all I ever get is bleating about the same shit I already addressed.
Is anyone actually saying this? What I usually see, like "queers for Palestine" is the opposite — people who excuse the extreme homophobia and misogyny in Islamic countries.
You are in a thread that started with a 1 day old account JAQing off about how transphobic Palestine is on a post about Palestinians campaigning for LGBT rights. If you don’t see that the purpose of that comment is to legitimize violence against Palestine I can’t help you.
Most of the southern US won't stone you or murder you in broad daylight though. What's happening in Palestine and Israel is fucked up, but it doesn't give a pass to the shit they do to the LGTBQ+ and women over there.
Since October 1st 2023, 20 trans people in the US are known to have died from violence. Almost half of them died in the south (as defined by the US census). Are trans people in the south any safer for it happening under cover of night? Pretending for a moment none of them were killed in broad daylight (some were).
Again, nobody is saying it excuses bigotry. Only a fucking idiot thinks bombing hospitals, schools, and civilians is going to somehow improve the lives of LGBT Palestinians (who everyone somehow neglects to give a shit about in these conversations except as a cudgel against western LGBT people).
Yes, trans people in the US are safer than in Palestine. Jesus Christ.
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/415610_WEST-BANK-AND-GAZA-2022-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf
spoiler
Violence against LGBTQI+ Persons: There were reported cases of violence,criminalization, or abuse based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the
West Bank. OHCHR and NGOs reported Hamas security forces in Gaza harassed
and detained persons due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. Both noted,
however, that such cases were rarely reported, especially in Gaza, because of
concerns about protecting the safety those involved.
OHCHR observers reported PA security officers harassedand sometimes arrested
individuals due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. LGBTQI+
individuals were also victims of targeted hate crimes and violent acts. Media
reported that Ahmed Abu Markhiya, a gay Palestinian, was killed by decapitation
in Hebron on October 5. Abu Markhiya had been residing in Israel for several
years under a humanitarian permit reportedly because of death threats he received
while living in the West Bankand was awaiting approval of an asylum application
to Canada, according to media reports. Palestinian police made an arrest and
continued an investigation intothe killing.
Media reported that lesbians in the West Bank and Gaza concealed their sexual
orientation due to fear they would be killed by their families.
The PA failed to protect members of the LGBTQI+ community. After an attack on
members of the community at the Al Mustawde restaurant earlier in the year, the
PA did not make any attempts to hold the culprits accountable for their action.
Discrimination: The PA does not provide protection for or prohibit
discrimination against the LGBTQI+ community. Homosexuality is widely
considered to be taboo in areas under PA control and in Gaza.
Activities associated with the LGBTQI+ community were met with strong
opposition, and the Palestinian police often acted to prevent these activities. As a
result of this and other discriminatory conduct, the LGBTQI+ community in the
West Bank was driven underground and had no vocal representatives or NGOs
willing to speak in the West Bank, according to observers. Similarly, in Gaza,
according to observers, there was no visible LGBTQI+ community. Observers
reported that human rights organizations in Gaza did not monitor and refused to
address LGBTQ+ issues.
Availability of Legal Gender Recognition: There is no legal method for
correcting gender markers on identity documents.
Involuntary or Coercive Medical or Psychological Practices Specifically
Targeting LGBTQI+ Individuals: According to media reports, family members
of LGBTQI+ individuals subjected them to involuntary or coercive medical,
psychological, and religious practices throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Media
reported that a Palestinian man confronted his son, age 18, after finding messages
on the son’s mobile phone between him and another young man suggesting a
same-sex relationship. The son claimed his father attacked him, beat him, and
renounced him. The father forced him to meet with a cleric weekly until he
attempted unsuccessfully to kill himself, according to the report.
Restrictions of Freedom of Expression, Association, or Peaceful Assembly:
The PA in cases limited freedom of expression, association, and peaceful
assembly, although not explicitly based on sexual orientation or identity, and it
tolerated such actions by vigilantes and armed militias. During the year, in the
West Bank, peaceful assemblies and gatherings attended by LGBTQI+ individuals
were disrupted. For example, the Warehouse (event space) in Ramallah was
closed after a campaign of incitement, hate speech, and assault, which followed a
June 17 attack on the venue and cancellation of a musical performance because the
artist was “gay.” According to media reports, the attackers circulated a video on
social media and, following the violent attack, targeted the performance space with
an incitement campaign based on a false account of the events and the place.
According to media, approximately 200,000 social media users participated,
leaving thousands of hate-filled comments and incitement to murder (see 2.a.,
Academic Freedom and Cultural Events).
The middle east in general, and subsaharan Africa, are by far the most homophobic regions on Earth: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/
It is, and that's when a discussion about Muslim nations gets very real.
They still don't deserve their treatment. But I think most people would prefer to live in a culture similar to Israel's over one similar to Iran's.
Lots of people all around the world are transphobic as fuck. That doesn't mean I want them and their children to get bombed or starved to death.
And let’s not pretend that trans Palestinians aren’t also being bombed and starved
So are you saying that Orthodox Jews and conservative Christians aren’t transphobic, or that we should go Gaza on Texas?
I think OP was wondering why LGBTQ folks would support a group that hates them.
Doesn’t mean to say that they deserve to die though, does it?
Because they have empathy.
There are LGBTQ people in Palestine, do you think Israel's bombs don't kill them too?
Because my basic humanity requires me to care about theirs, even if they don't care about mine.
Do Americans hate us? The only people I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted by have been Americans.
Have you ever spent time in a middle eastern country and been visibly "out"? (I'm assuming you're saying this in reference to existing somewhere on the lgbtq spectrum)
If the answer is no, but you have spent time in America, then I think this is a strange comment.
I have. Did aid work in the region. More than once actually. I'm gay as fuck. People welcomed me as much as the rest of the group. They were some of the kindest people I've met. People aren't a monolith. I'm sure there were shitty people there too, just like there are shitty people in the west. People hate me and essentialize me everywhere. How does it make sense for me to do the same?
I could have very well have had a negative experience too btw. But if I did, I still wouldn't condemn and entire people to die because of it. I'm not a coward.
I’ve never been out in Russia, but I know we’re persecuted there. Same for Poland. I’ve never been out in Uganda (I haven’t been there yet), and although I’ve been to India the social circles I moved in meant I didn’t encounter anything like what the community members find there.
What I find curious is that Americans use this as a lash particularly against Islam, while at the same time a large part of their population not only supports LGBT-phobic legislation in the US, but also the evangelical community that actively lobbies for the death penalty for being LGBT in Africa. I can sympathize with the plight of Russians under the violent and murderous dictatorship of Putin without saying that the average Russian is correct on their opinion about the LGBT community. If Russia were to invade Uganda and kill 50k civilians, there would be an outcry against it and anyone who said “But they hate The Gays” would hopefully be ushered peacefully out of the room, as the two are orthogonal.
Is Israel killing 40-50k people to secure gay rights in Gaza? Or have they been supporting Hamas because it allowed them to avoid a two state solution?
Trust me - we are not strangers to the idea that other oppressed communities have parts that are still prejudiced against us. That neither justifies genocide nor does it relieve us as individuals from acknowledging such extreme moral wrongdoing. If an unarmed person shot by police turned out to have opposed marriage equality, that doesn’t excuse the moral requirement to oppose that action.
So unless you think that anti-LGBT legislation and violence justifies terrorist activity including the slaughter of civilians within the US (it does not), I respectfully suggest you review your premises.
To be clear, what I said was "I think that's a strange comment" to someone saying "Americans want to kill me" in comparison to those in the Middle East.
If you read that back carefully, you might notice that I was careful not to say "I support the systematic and brutal murder of millions of people" - that's because, like any sane person, I see that what Israel are doing is abhorrent. I never argued or insinuated that lgbtq people should support the genocide of bigots, but again for the sake of clarity my position is that only a literal insane person could think that. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
So, with that said, your post that I responded to seems to imply that you think Americans (in general) hate you in the same way that many in the middle east hate you. To me, that is an incredibly naive view, and a very strange thing for someone who's never lived there to make.
I think that it's possible to condemn elements of a culture, in an honest way ie. that the Islamic attitude to LGB is worse than that in western countries, however bad western countries often are (for some reason I think there's sometimes less hate for the T in Islamic culture) but pull short of supporting the worst elements of western culture (like islamophobia) and absolutely without endorsing literal war crimes.
Not sure about trans acceptance in particular but judged by Arab standards Palestinians are generally right-out progressive. More in the "don't ask, don't tell" stage with the occasional threat by fundies.
...and that all of course is West Bank. Gaza under Hamas rule is a completely different topic as Hamas are fundies.
How come do you think South Africa was one of the first countries to legalize marriage equality? Solidarity is how we do away with hate.
Go watch Pride. 2014 British movie. Will make you cry.
Edit, fuck I went and watched the ending again and I'm crying.
Why is this relevant? The article is about Palestinian activists fighting for LGBT rights for Palestine. Yes the rights of LGBT people in Palestine are not great .... But that's literally what this article is about, Palestinians fighting to make it better
So is the US and Canada and the UK. Should I wish for those countries to be genocided too?
The more we keep killing them the faster they will realize they must be the violent barbarians that should adopt our culture.
That's how this works right?