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Israel Attack on Iran Is What World War III Looks Like (theintercept.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

But this, in fact, is what actual war looks like these days: Sometimes it’s a volley of 300 missiles and drones, and sometimes it is lean, targeted, and carried out covertly. Gone are the days of vast conquering armies and conventional military confrontations between two parties. So long as experts, the government, and the media worry only about a kind of war that is obsolete, it cannot see the war right in front of our faces.

Great article on the evolving face of warfare and how, as long-range and unmanned systems replace on-the-ground and manned conflict, people are assuaged into treating missiles and bombs being lobbed between countries as something "other" than war.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but a handful of conventional missiles going back and forth against symbolic targets is not a very useful definition of a war, much less a world war, if for no other reason than it is to broad to be useful. The on again/off again three way between India/China/Pakistan comes to mind, as might India and Canada if the definition goes much beyond that. The word war tends to imply that nations don’t have active trade between them for instance, and generally implies that at least one side is attempting to achieve some sort of military victory.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

So you're saying that people fighting with nail-studded sticks, or secretly assassinating internal political opponents in the other's territory, is a similar level of conflict as flattening an embassy with a laser-guided bomb, or firing 300 drones and ballistic missiles, and then having a retaliatory strike on the location of another country's nuclear program?

This strains my credulity, that you are suggesting this.

If China bombed a US embassy in Japan, the US fired 300 missiles at targets on China's eastern seaboard (which were intercepted), and China retaliated by striking targets in San Diego... no one on earth would be denying that they were at war.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

All of the above are cases of one nations government killing a handful of another’s people for minor political posturing, and are all far more similar in scale to each other than say the US-Vietnam, Ukrainian, or even the undeclared Falklands war.

If the ultimate goal of a war is to force one nation
or group to surrender to another through military might, then I don’t think anyone in Israel expected Iran to surrender to them after they ‘accidentally’ blew up an embassy, nor do I expect anyone in Iran to have expected Israel to send an offer of surrender after they launched a single wave of largely outdated missiles against a handful of airfields.

In practice there are of course secondary effects, but the primary political motivation is internal, not external. Iran doesn’t expect Israel to surrender, but primarily wishes to reassure its public and keys to power that it can respond to military aggression. Israel does not wish Iran to surrender and end the ‘war’, it wishes to commit the US to giving it more resources while finding a situation in which it can play the victim.

So yes, I would say it is far more similar in scale, scope, and goal to assassinating a foreign citizen or sending a bunch of soldiers to beat another off ‘your’ land with nail studded sticks than it is sending tens of thousands of soldiers to occupy territory and replace the local government with your own.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

If the ultimate goal of a war is to force one nation or group to surrender to another through military might

I don't think it is the ultimate goal of war, that's overly restricting the definition based on, as I said, this conception of war as only being these wide-ranging conflicts (really, what "total war" refers to). Many wars have been fought purely over control of land or resources, where surrender or government toppling was never the goal.

war, noun, ˈwȯr (1): a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations

Merriam-Webster

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Surrender of or the replacement of the government on that land or resources through military might either directly or indirectly is however the way control over those resources is achieved, and no, I am not just taking about total war, as one of my examples there was the Falkland’s war, which was not even close to a total war for either side.

Moreover your definition would seem not to apply to the current Iran- Israel conflict, as it is being discussed and decided on a case by case basis for both sides instead of an open and declared conflict.