this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024

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Here are the massive tax increases coming your way in a second Biden term (www.foxnews.com)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Taxing unrealized gains would be unconstitutional.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Here's an Oxfam report on wealth inequality. Some excerpts:

"Elon Musk, one of the world’s richest men, paid a “true tax rate” of about 3 percent between 2014 and 2018. Aber Christine, a flour vendor in Uganda, makes $80 a month and pays a tax rate of 40 percent."
"Worldwide, only four cents in every tax dollar now comes from taxes on wealth. Half of the world’s billionaires live in countries with no inheritance tax for direct descendants. They will pass on a $5 trillion tax-free treasure chest to their heirs, more than the GDP of Africa, which will drive a future generation of aristocratic elites. Rich people’s income is mostly unearned, derived from returns on their assets, yet it is taxed on average at 18 percent, just over half as much as the average top tax rate on wages and salaries."
"During the pandemic and cost-of-living crisis years since 2020, $26 trillion (63 percent) of all new wealth was captured by the richest 1 percent, while $16 trillion (37 percent) went to the rest of the world put together. A billionaire gained roughly $1.7 million for every $1 of new global wealth earned by a person in the bottom 90 percent."
"According to new analysis by the Fight Inequality Alliance, Institute for Policy Studies, Oxfam and the Patriotic Millionaires, an annual wealth tax of up to 5 percent on the world’s multi-millionaires and billionaires could raise $1.7 trillion a year, enough to lift 2 billion people out of poverty, fully fund the shortfalls on existing humanitarian appeals, deliver a 10-year plan to end hunger, support poorer countries being ravaged by climate impacts, and deliver universal healthcare and social protection for everyone living in low- and lower middle-income countries."

[+] [email protected] -16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Let’s focus on one as that’s easier.

Elon Musk, one of the world’s richest men, paid a “true tax rate” of about 3 percent between 2014 and 2018. Aber Christine, a flour vendor in Uganda, makes $80 a month and pays a tax rate of 40 percent.”

This is false. It’s easy to prove it false. It’s well documented.

Between 2014 and 2018, Musk paid $455 million in taxes on $1.52 billion of income,

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/elon-musk-says-he-will-pay-over-11-billion-in-taxes-this-year.html

So how did they come up with 3?

Technically most of that wasn’t “income”. It’s capital gains. His salary is normally a dollar.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Here's another story about the 11-billion tax claim. What your story leaves out is: "The emphasis on Musk's income comes amid speculation of his past tax filings. In June, a ProPublica investigation found that while Musk's wealth had grown by nearly $14 billion from 2014 to 2018, he paid $68,000 in federal income tax in 2015, $65,000 in 2017 and none in 2018. Between 2014 and 2018, the investigation found, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%."

Here's the ProPublica investigation mentioned, which is based on IRS documents. "We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period....According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%."

[+] [email protected] -16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Ignore the 11 billion part. That’s for a different time period. Your quote was from 2014-2018.

You don’t pay taxes on wealth. So your citation doesn’t understand tax law. Wealth can’t be taxed by the federal government because it’s unconstitutional. Basically they are idiots.

We pay taxes on income and the rate changes on the type of income. Wealth isn’t income.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Ignore the 11 billion part.

You linked the 11-billion story though?

The attitude of hiding behind loopholes and technicalities is how the US has ended up with in the state shown by this chart and tables - with 2/3rds of wealth owned by the top 10%, and only 3% of wealth held by the bottom 50%. I'll continue to listen to your arguments, but as fair warning you are unlikely to convince me that the bottom 170ish million US citizens should only have access to 3% of the wealth (2023 data btw).

[+] [email protected] -13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You linked the 11-billion story though?

As it had the 2014-2018 numbers.

The attitude of hiding behind loopholes and technicalities is how

It’s neither. It’s how our tax code is written. Most of their wealth I would assume is stock. It isn’t cash.

Almost all of elons wealth is stock.

I’d be fine saying stock sales are ordinary income including SS and Medicare. That would end some of this.

I’d be fine counting personal loans as income and rebate if needed when paid off.

Since capital gains are taxed lower. Many people have converted their pay to stock.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

It’s neither. It’s how our tax code is written.

In my defense, that's precisely why I opened with the idea that we should tax the obscenely rich. As in, change the tax code. I haven't alleged that Elon et al are criminally evading taxes (although I've heard rumblings of it happening in some cases), but rather I say the code needs to be revisited with levelling inequality in mind. I've even heard people like Mark Cuban explicitly say they believe their economic peer group should be taxed heavily. "Cuban urges people to get so “obnoxiously rich that when that tax bill comes, your first thought will be to choke on how big a check you have to write. Your 2nd thought will be ‘what a great problem to have,’ and your 3rd should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you.”

Since capital gains are taxed lower. Many people have converted their pay to stock.

A fine example of using technicalities/loopholes/whatever you want to label it as a way to reduce taxes paid.

[+] [email protected] -9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A fine example of using technicalities/loopholes/whatever you want to label it as a way to reduce taxes paid.

It’s neither. It’s using the tax code to their advantage. Just as we do every year. Loophole makes it sound like it wasn’t designed that way.

I am 100% against taxing wealth but I am onboard for forcing people to covert wealth to cash to be taxed. The loans are something I despise. That really is a pet peeve of mine.

I also don’t mind PUBLiC companies having more regulations such as total comp can’t exceed x of the lowest paid employee.

Part of the wealth gap is caused by the stock market. If they want the benefit of the stock market. They should have more regulations.

The problem though is congress is tied to the hip to these people and that is why things done change

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

That's why I specified you may call it whatever you wish to. The important bit is not the words used, it's the fact that less taxes are paid. Going back to the Oxfam report I linked: "Worldwide, only four cents in every tax dollar now comes from taxes on wealth." and "A billionaire gained roughly $1.7 million for every $1 of new global wealth earned by a person in the bottom 90 percent."

No matter how those facts are coming to be real, or how you wish to fix it, or what you want to call it, that is the situation I would like to have remedied by taxation or other forced redistribution of wealth. I'm not even full communist or anything - I firmly believe we need distinct economic tiers to encourage people to perform. You don't get enough surgeons if you pay everyone a cashier's wage regardless of job. But there's a huge amount of room for correcting wealth inequality that allows the wealthy to enjoy the best life has to offer while still preventing the (IMO) injustice of current economic reality.