Conservative
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
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If you make less than 400,000 a year you would never see a new dime of taxes and social security would be solvent for your lifetime even with an increase in benefits.
I wonder if anyone screeching about “my taxes” concerning this approach even makes over 400k YEARLY.
It sounds like the raising “my taxes” bit is a lie, often repeated by people who are not so rich as to be affected. At best the argument is “I am selfish so fuck you”
At worst it’s a deceitful argument that ignores how easy it is to continue a program that is the main thing keeping the elderly out of poverty.
The same group of old people you will likely fall into if you’re making less than 400k a year these days…
Had a meeting with a financial advisor to discuss investments to secure longterm security today. One of the things he mentioned, which I had not considered, was investing in companies serving the aging health sector. But that's beside the point, just thought it worth mentioning as it tangentially fit what you said.
Raise taxes. Taxes pay for things. You know how you're mad that live is getting shittier in the USA? Giving tax windfalls to the ultra rich and corporations is one of the reasons for that. Reagan poisoned the well on government or taxes ever creating a benefit and we've been stuck on this party line ever since.
RAISE FUCKING TAXES.
I have made over 400k several times, but not every year. I'd be very comfortable with that extra tax. They should definitely do it.
It would be people making over 168. The current cap is at 168k
So yes, it would raise my taxes with a wealth distribution.
We should abandon elderly people to destitution and grow homeless encampments, for what? So you can retire on a fatter cushion?
So we should scam more people because the elderly got scammed?
Lol, if anyone's getting scammed it's me! People often collect more social security than they put in. I've only been paying into since I began working, and have another 30 or so years before I can start collecting.
So, yes, we should continue paying out social security because our entire society is a scam. It's the least we can do.
I'm glad you're honest about social security and new deal policies. Though I don't understand why you'd want to double down on them.
Then I'm sorry to disappoint because it's not fair to attribute such beliefs to me, particularly about the new deal policies, which led to the idealized American past that modern folks pine after, when I didn't mention them.
But since you brought 'em up, we should definitely double down on the new deal policies rather than continue to role them back. Lina Khan's renewed anti-trust efforts are a good, strong first step, but we definitely need way more.
TIL. There's an obvious question though of whether the economic demand of hunting Nazis ended the great depression or some other economic or social policies or a combo of several.
I guess there's no way we'll ever know.
Well hot damn! I looked up that paper and, unlike a lot of right-wing news sources, it's real and says what it say you say it says.
Still though, another resource I use complicates the conclusion of that paper. So, okay, I'll admit that the New Deal's economic effects were complicated. Maybe it didn't lead to the best economic times in America? It obviously couldn't have been the war because the war ended. Maybe the war gave it a sort of start...but what was actually sustained until the 1970s?
TIL x2, and I stand corrected again. Every time, I just gonna make a link to the last time I was corrected in this community, because why not.
What sustained us? A common theory I’ve heard is WW2. Most the world had to rebuild from WW2 which gave us many years economic prosperity.
I’m not sure if it’s true. I tend to disagree but I think it may be a valid explanation. We didn’t suffer the loses of Japan, Germany, Russia, etc.
While we lost lives, our country was relatively untouched. Japan occupied parts of Alaska, attacked Oregon a few times but really we didn’t experience the infrastructure losses the other countries did.
That is the issue. The system doesn't work. It is just a wealth transfer which I am against.
I would support taking the 12% and putting it into a private retirement account.
It is unfair to ask the top 5% or 50% to pay for the bottom 50%. I already pay more than my fair share of taxes. People won't take taxation seriously until they feel the pain. Spreading the pain across everyone may cause people to stop demanding more spending.
We have a spending problem in this country and it can't be solved by taxation.
The Inuits use to push the elderly out on an ice flow.
Sure. So what? Is that your social prescription for the elderly: help them along to the final stage of life?
They do it in Canada and Europe. Isn’t that the more humane option ?
How do they do it in Canada and Europe? I seriously doubt they're pushing 'em out into the ocean like, "Go be with the seals! We'll miss you!"
Euthanasia.
Uhh, well, I support voluntary euthanasia. People should have every right to end their lives on their terms.
It's the same for elective abortion for me: people should have every right to bring life into the world on their terms, too.
But that still wouldn't solve the social security problem...
Social security would best be solved by private retirement accounts. That would solve the problem quickly.
What do you mean by "solved"? Because, obviously, a lack of social security couldn't possibly function as the program does as it exists.
Problem is solved. Just move everything to private funds. Instead of the grand Ponzi scheme we have now
Oh. Well, then raising taxes it solves it just as simply and in the exact same way. No more grand Ponzi scheme and puts money into private hands.
It doesn’t solve anything. It just increases taxes.
Either that or raise the percentage and let everyone pay more. If you think it has value. You should be willIng to pay more for it. Right now it’s 12.5. Raise it to 20%
Raise it to 20% and remove the cap. I'll accept those terms.
The average American won’t. They just want someone to pay for it. I’d be fine if it was fairly done like increasing it for everyone with no cap.
If that were true, then raising the cap should be sufficient. But plenty of people who are going need to go with the seals will oppose it all the same.
No. That is just punishing high income earners. Benefits don’t increase as we pay more. Benefits are static.
Make everyone pay more is a fair way to fund it.
So you make above the cap? So you currently pay nothing?
Are you planning to reject SS payments when you’re of age? I mean you didn’t pay in right?
Are you saying that despite not previously having to pay a cent into into SS, and despite that you have access to SS benefits whether you pay or not, you consider it too much to bear to start paying anything?
Again at best the argument is you’re selfish.
I put into SS. The amount I receive is capped but I pay more into the system then I’ll receive in a benefit.
It’s selfish to say to keep my own money? That’s the opposite of selfish. It’s selfish to expect me to fund your retirement.
SS doesn’t fund people’s retirement like it’s an extravagant pension, it keeps the elderly out of poverty. Like you said the benefits scale so why refer to it like you’re personally cutting a check to send everyone in a cruise?
You pay for roads you don’t drive on, I pay for schools for kids I don’t have, get over it. Selfishness isn’t a virtue.
You are not rejecting the system making you a benefactor, by your own logic that ship has sailed. Congrats you’ve already contributed, and you’re not a slave and atlas has not shrugged.
Right now you’re just making up reasons to be selfish… like you personally funding the nation’s retirements. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to feel good. It’s selfishness. Again, get over it.
I don’t see it selfish to keep my own money. That’s a weird view of being selfish
Get over the desire to take money from other. It’s theft and the system isn’t sustainable. People should be personally responsible for their retirement.
SS needs to be sunset and people need to save for their own retirement.
Do you have kids? If so then other people helped pay for their schools, if not then you’re already paying for other peoples’ kids school.
Hell do you have insurance? Do you know how that works collectively?
You are already paying for roads you’ll never drive but others can, firefighters you’ll likely never need but other will, etc etc. conversely you are able to drive from A to B because of financial input from people that may never drive the same road.
You are already contributing to and benefitting from this “theft”you speak of. The difference seems to be that you take issue with knowing that you are helping other people. It can’t be the money, you are already benefitting from that and you’d have to be stupid to say you shouldn’t.
It’s frankly kind of weird how much you are already benefitting from everything you call “theft,” it only seems to be an issue as soon as you’re asked to contribute your fair share.
I paid for their school. I wrote a check each month for their education.
I contribute my fair share to social security. It’s asinine to think otherwise. My benefits don’t go up as I pay more. I just receive less for every dollar that is stolen from me.
I’d rather eliminate social security.
Didn’t think otherwise, just wanted to get to this part:
You’d gladly use my tax dollars if it stopped your house from burning down, but you’d rather eliminate the single program keeping the nation’s elderly out of poverty than spend one tax dollar of yours. Certainly starting to sound like theft now.
Oddly I pay taxes as well. So if me using my tax dollars to pay for the fire services. Unless you live by me, you’re not paying for my fire services
I’d rather each person paid for their own retirement. It’s not that complicated. Hopefully when Trump wins again, we can finally end this Ponzi scheme. The answer is not to keep raising the rate of taxes on me to pay for a failed program.
If they raise them again. I’ll just retire.