this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2024
106 points (100.0% liked)

the_dunk_tank

15681 readers
225 users here now

It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this.

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I noticed similar sentiments to this before; why are some Turkish people kissing up to Europeans like this?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

why are some Turkish people kissing up to Europeans like this?

Something to do with Ottoman Empire brainworms and maybe their reactionaries think they're honorary whites because of Turkey's unique geopolitical position as being in between europe and the middle east?*

*I have no clue myself lol just brainstorming ideas

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Ah, that would certainly explain some of the other weird tweets I've found from some Turkish folks. I recall after the earthquake in Turkey, there was a tweet talking about racist hate mail that a mosque got of someone celebrating the earthquake killing so many people, and a Turkish person responded to clarify that Turks aren't muslims; he seemed only put out by being conflated with being a muslim rather than the racist taking some glee in the deaths of so many Turkish people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I once saw some video where a Turk and a Greek were arguing about which one of them was more Aryan and which one more Jewish

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

The only way to find more insane shit than balkans youtube comments. That's where I found out Bulgaria destroyed the Roman Empire and that its uncouth to store your vodka under the kitchen sink. Amazing shit.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Holy shit, that is the end point of internet white supremacist irony poisoning, Twitter is such a dumpster fire. At least turkey has a ~~city~~ neighborhood where communists kill police and drug dealers if they enter.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Whoops its a neighborhood in Istanbul, not a city, St. BRG covers it at around 11 minutes into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3yvGPKjFJI

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

"please put us in EU bottom-speak"

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

The final decades of the Ottoman Empire have a lot to do with it, but it's more of a feature of the turkish republic's own history. The Balkan Wars meant that the Ottomans went from a multi-confessional empire to an empire with multiple nationalities but one majority faith in one fell swoop. This put the Ottoman elites into a nationalist hyperdrive where they believed that anything less than total unity across their country meant that european powers with many times their population would just continue to do what they had done for a century: slowly partition the empire by encouraging ethnic sectarianism and rebellion. The ethnic cleansing of the balkans and the circassian genocide would eventually fuel the armenian genocide and Turkey's ongoing issue with the kurds.

That paranoia did not end after the Turkish War of Independence. On the contrary, the kemalist state sought to take this country of refugees and mold it into a single nation, to varying results. Turkey is a multi-racial country and the turkish identity is not really ethnocentric. On the other hand, that same state reacted very strongly against the groups which it perceived as a threat. Namely the religious conservative peasantry and the kurds.

The Turkish Republic was a francophile project and a project of top down secularization which was enforced by a series of juntas. The elites behind this project however proved rather brittle. Their wealth and power did not come from industry or land but the state apparatus itself. The kemalist middle classes of half a century ago were the literati elites of a state which, all things considered, is poor in most ever resource. Anatolia is not even good for fishing, not that great for agriculture, and poorer in mineral resources compared to pretty much everyone in the region. In what way Turkey is an industrial middle power today, it is because of state policy and the ability to be a middle man in the world supply chain. And soon enough, that industrial success lead onto the rising middle classes of a religious conservative majority, which entirely displaced the only francophile elites.

This is the fundamental conflict in Turkey today. A fractured opposition, each with their own idea of what kemalism is, and a strong government capable of bridging gaps created by the old juntas - both for good and for ill. That is why you have this demographic of turks who insist they are european for all the wrong reasons: 'no, we aren't like the arabs, no we aren't like the kurds, we like classical music and we believe in laicité!'. It's the same as iranian diasporas who are diehard Pahlavists.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for your detailed explanation mr. smart catboy sir

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This is a great summary of the geopolitical history of the ottoman empire before the fall. Are you Turkish by any chance?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I'm not turkish, no.