we believe revolution is the solution

Yes, that's the issue.

smug liberal enlightened centrist argument

That's on you for assuming that just because you don't like an argument it must be those smug libs.

tankies of being bootlickers and what not: we

I didn't call you a tankie, you self-identified as one

Do I see smug pricks like yourself going around calling his ass a cultist? No!

I call out silliness when I see it, but most lib stuff that I come across is of the bland, inoffensive variety. I haven't been checking this entire thread for everyone that's wrong, I've spent enough time on this already.

The easiness of the solution isn't how much work is involved. By "neat and easy" I mean, "The root of all evil is capitalism and we solve that with revolution".

Black and white thinking pops up again. Why do you think I think socialist states are evil? Why do you think I think everything America does is reasonable?

It's another cult-like behavior that is rampant with tankies. "This person thinks this, so I will assign these other views to them as well, so that I may dunk on them".

So here's the thing. Hexbear has some smart people on it. @[email protected] wrote a good comment over here that talks about how it's good that they can see injustices in the world and get pissed off: https://lemmy.world/comment/12220633

But cults suck in smart people, and they're very skilled at this. They feed off of righteous anger at the state of the world, and promise neat, easy solutions. And the issue is that you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, especially people that suffer from black and white thinking. You can't talk about how the world doesn't neatly fit into tidy categories, because that's not as comforting as what the cult offers. The only thing you can really do is reinforce that they've fallen into a broken system of thinking, and encourage them to want to reason themselves out of their current position. Once that desire is there, they'll accomplish it all on their own.

The term is “dialectic”. Are you sure you are familiar with the topic you are being condescending about?

This is a great example of the hyperfocus on irrelevant details that plagues these comments. It was intentional, but even if it wasn't, so what? "Your argument has a typo, therefore you're dunked!"?

You’re meant to ask why.

The issue is that the comment is pablum. It doesn't actual say anything, it's not informative. It's hoping you'll infer something yourself and then waste time assuming what they meant. As mentioned in a previous comment, I realize that one of the things it's trying to get you to infer is that decadent western media is bad or whatever, but it's not limited to that. Arguing that there's only one thing it's trying to communicate is a great example of the black and white thinking that plagues tankies.

"You’re meant to ask why" is so embarrassingly vapid that I'm surprised you're defending it. Of course people will focus on big issues like "let's try to make sure this country continues to exist" over "let's try to help this country improve itself". There will hopefully be time for more of that later after Putin's invasion fails. I mean come on, this is pretty basic stuff. Do you think I'd be arguing in good faith if I said "Yeah, what's happening in Palestine is bad, but have you seen their LGBTQ record"? It's also again, not saying something, it's just JAQing off.

Right so some sarcastic little jokes. The kind of thing all over Lemmy.

I was told there'd be informative comments with sources. There were not. The vast majority of the comments didn't even try to be substantive, just pigs wallowing in mud.

A sentiment found nowhere in the statement you quoted

I elided some of the comment that makes it more clear:

After getting teased and given the run around for decades he slowly wised up to the game. Putin realized by 2014 they wouldn’t let him be a European but until late 2023 he still didn’t understand that the west could never be trusted.

This is imperialist sympathizing, and the OP should feel ashamed. "Putin just had to invade Ukraine because of those other meanie imperialists that didn't want him in their club!"

Also "crypto fascists who run NATO will never forgive the Slavic peoples for destroying the third reich" is just straight facepalm material.

Apparently a reference to this series of beer commercials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLK4MxAiF7c

I wouldn't put it so aggressively, but I stopped arguing with one of them recently, because I realized that I was punching down. I'm not going to try and diagnose, but some sort of neurodivergence that leads to hyperfocusing on irrelevant details, and black and white thinking.

I don't think the answer is insulting them, that just validates their ingroup/outgroup mentality. The best thing to do is to just encourage them to keep on trying to improve themselves, and try to work on their maturity for when they become adults.

The majority of responses are of this ilk:

WHAT ABOUT ISM MUCH!!!111?!?1;1!?;1!1?1!1!11?1?1?!1!1?1?1?1!1!!1!1!1?1?1??1!1!1!11!?1?1!1?1?1

had no business being nazi fucks murdering their own people and working for to provoke Russia

Obomba had no business overthrowing the democratically elected Viktor Yakunovich

They're not detailed, sourced, or coherent, they're just bandwagoning. They're pigs wallowing in the mud, enjoying getting others muddy.

One response has images like this and links to news articles:

It is sourced, I'll give you that. It doesn't try to actually make any argument though, it's just hoping you'll see the headlines that think "ukraine == nazis", without stating that outright. It's oddly similar to Young Earth Creationists.

Here's another response that's the sort of thing you write when you first learn "omg capitalism is bad you guys!" and view all of the world's ills through that lens. much dialect wow:

Anyone who had a look at Lenin’s “Imperialism: highest stage of capitalism” and took it seriously, knew that there would be war in Europe as soon as they realized that the means of production of the former USSR were auctioned in a corrupt fashion, and their structure of ownership went not to western hands, but to national interests that collide with those of the US. Since that moment, it was just a matter of time that there would be conflict.

Poor oppressed Putin!

Putin tried really had to be taken into the fold imperialism. He assisted the west in its looting of Russia. He tried to join NATO but the crypto fascists who run NATO will never forgive the Slavic peoples for destroying the third reich

I've waded through the responses now to make sure I'm not missing something worthwhile, and it was a waste of my time. The one thing of value any of these responses has is hopefully one day making the posters feel self cringe when they've matured.

“Ukraine isn’t a utopia, therefore it’s a dystopia”.

That collection of news headlines are trying to imply "Ukraine isn't perfect, therefore Putin's invasion is justified because Ukraine is full Nazi and also the western media is trying to cover it up!". It's an immature view of the world, where something being imperfect means it's literally hitler. It's something you get past as you grow up, for the most part. I know some adult tankies IRL so it's not a given that people grow out of it, but each and every single one of them suffers from black and white thinking that negatively impacts their life in many ways.

Let's agree that Putin wanting to bring back the USSR is silly. I'm not really defending OP, but calling the responses in that thread "detailed replies" is... oof. They're detailed in the same way Time Cube is detailed. OP wandered into the pig sty and got muddy, but at least he's not one of the pigs wallowing in the mud.

Those replies are terrible. The one with all the news headlines is peak hexbear. "Ukraine isn't a utopia, therefore it's a dystopia". It's a classic example of black and white thinking, while they conveniently ignore all of the Zwastikas on the side they're cheering for.

Those aren't good responses. The narrative of "poor Putin just had to invade Ukraine, don't you see?" is bollocks.

Their weird insistence that anyone that doesn't agree with them is a "lib" that needs "dunking on" is tiring. If you don't show full-throated support for authoritarian regimes that they happen to like, then you clearly support Israel and genocide. They need to mature a bit, and realize that the world isn't black and white, and it doesn't neatly fall into convenient categories that can be nicely labelled.

It's not just you. Like many people that get sucked into cults, you don't want to directly engage with them. Just nicely encourage them to deprogram themselves, and focus on maturing and becoming an adult. They really don't like get called out like that, based on my interactions with them.

I don't like "3 strikes" laws, but man... you should not have any access to a car after 5 DUIs.