Be respectful
From this article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
Related to this post: https://lemmy.ca/post/34496572
"based on CR member surveys" so its what people think is most reliable. Not what is actually most reliable.
Right? It’s not like it’s unknowable how reliable a car is? I want to see the metrics I get for all other stuff on the planet. Uptime. Unscheduled maintenance dollars per year/kilometer. I know all companies that operate fleets have these numbers!
Right, the metric at the top is “predicted reliability” - how can that even be quantified? You buy a new car, you haven’t owned it long, please tell us how reliable you think this might be in the future
... So basically owning a Subaru makes you happier. That's what I thought.
Owning a Subaru makes you smug.
Not all surveys are opinion surveys like political ones are. It’s just a method of data collection.
We calculate predicted reliability ratings for almost every new car, truck, and SUV on the market using data from Consumer Reports’ annual reliability surveys, which ask members about problems they’ve had with their vehicles
This year we calculated brand-level score by first examining the weighted overall problem rate for all models within a brand for each model year. Then the brand reliability score was calculated by averaging models from 2022 to 2024, and some early 2025 data for each brand, where there was sufficient sample size. We had insufficient data to create brand rankings for Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Infiniti, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Lucid, Maserati, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, and Ram.
Good point but still questionable methodology.
This basically defines most reliable as "least issues in first 3 years". Also why would you collect them as a survey of your members and not try to get a broader statistic.
What broader statistic? The next step up would be cold calls and that comes with all kinds of issues of it's own.
There should be statistics how many cars are sold and then you could collect data from repairshops instead of users from a website. Even if a user has 3 cars, asking 1 repairshop will give you data for 100's of cars. Its just odd to do a survey on the users of your website because thats probably a small and skewed sample size.
Edit: "We had insufficient data to create brand rankings for Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Infiniti, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Lucid, Maserati, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, and Ram." Gives you a hint on how sufficient their data is in total.
I suppose, but they're not necessarily going to hand over data just because you asked. Maybe it's not the best possible choice, but it doesn't seem odd to me at all.
Well maybe Odd is the wrong word, too small and biased?
Read again. This is an aggregation of specific model-level data on actual maintenance events.
How are any electric car makers so unreliable. They're so mechanically simple.
How the hell do you fuck up so badly that you're the bottom of the list Rivian??
Combustion car makers had a century to make their cars more reliable
“Since EV technology is still relatively new, automakers continue to work the bugs out of their powertrains and platforms,” Elek says. “But we also see issues with their non-EV components, such as the latest infotainment and electronic features.”
Electric cars are actually very complex. They monitor a ton of sensors and electrical properties constantly and need to manage everything.
It isn't just a big motor and a big battery hooked up to a variable resistance switch at the accelerator.
I mean, they're still a lot simpler than combustion cars. Like the other guy said, it's probably because they're startups.
They are mechanically simpler because they don't have hundreds of parts in a combustion engine and an automatic transmission, but their overall complexity is much higher.
You have all of the electrical system out of a modern car(fucking complex) with all of the systems needed to handle the electric motors and batteries.
It is the different between a flip phone and a smartphone. The smartphone isn't simpler because it doesn't have as many buttons or a hinge.
There's tons of electronics in a combustion engine too and transmission too, and infotainment bloatware is not exclusive to EVs at all.
The electronics in the actual EV powertrain lean more to beefy than complex, as well. A line that carries hundreds of amps and volts isn't going to fit on a standard chip wafer, at least not without a lot of help.
There are far, far, far fewer components for an EV than an ICE.
Their ECU/computer sensors are likely even less sophisticated than ICE ones, especially when it comes to ignition timings, interference engines, etc. There's just WAY more things that can go wrong with an ICE.
The difference is ICE manufacturers have had over a century to get feedback and improve, and EV's have had a tenth of that.
Wow, how did Subaru get to the top, they had reliability issues for years ago
It’s been over a decade since they’ve addressed their head gasket issues by many accounts (the most notorious large failure they were known for around 100k miles). The main problem they have right now is the infotainment is hot garbage and very integrated into the cars (cheap, slow, touch screen based controls) and using CVTs (which other manufacturers also are using to get better mileage ratings).
Toyota and Honda on the other hand followed Ford and installed rubber belts where there is oil in the engine and are seeing failures way earlier than what they were known for. I know some of these annoying things since we had to shop for a car due to someone crashing against our 2006 Honda recently. I say annoying since it seems every new car out there is made to break.
Yeah. Highly suspicious of Subaru's ranking.
Their newer cars still have reliability issues. Especially the computer/ infotainment system.
I have a current gen Outback, and I have all the issues!
Admittedly, it very reliably goes down the road when I'm towing it with my truck.
Member survey, not reality. This chart is worthless. Suby fanbois are nearly impenetrably stuck on how awesome their vehicles are. I'm surprised Tesla isn't on the top.
BMW is so high for a company that sells basic plastic for like $500. I watched a YouTuber repair one and he said the rubber seal for the windows was like $2,000 EACH
Are Rivian’s really that bad? I’ve always heard good things about them, especially compared to Tesla.
They are not. Ask Rivian owners and they'll tell you they love them and they're very reliable.
I have three friends with Rivians, two truck models and an SUV model, and they swear by them. The biggest issue is if you need to service them, their shops are difficult to get to, and getting parts can take months. They have not fabbed up enough replacement components yet. Other than that, they're stellar.
Teslas were unreliable garbage for a long time too. Making reliable cars takes a lot if institutional knowledge it seems, and I'm guessing Rivian just doesn't have it yet.
If I'm buying electric, I'll be looking at the older brands that cut their teeth on combustion cars.
It surprises me that Ford is as high up as it is. Considering the recall situation. I feel like they should be down there with Tesla and the only reason they aren't is because Ford had such a head start in the automotive industry so they sell more vehicles.
So if I get a Toyota 86 or a Subaru BRZ it must be 130.
Other than the injectors, the engine and most of the car is a Subaru.
Grandpa was right about his Buick.
Did he say it had average reliability?
Subaru is surprising to me.
Why is there such a huge gap between Buick and gmc?
Surprised to see VW below Tesla.
I own a Skoda (VW group) that is extremely reliable. 25 years old almost 500.000Km. Not a single major repair, except for consumables like clutches, timing belts a starter motor, and such. It doesn't burn or leak oil. Refrigerant is changed every few years, but never needs topping up. The car feels solid.
I have heard from owners of newer VW group cars that they are not as solid and reliable nowadays.
It's only the perceived reliability and Tesla owners are still young in the sense that their experience is only few years old whereas you have 100 years of VW experience.