this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024

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Religious LGBTQ+ folks who are also anarchist have no safe place to speak their minds, and I think it's a shame. (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I am interested in a community of people of faith who are at the same time on the political left, particularly anarchism, and lgbtq+ inclusion, particularly transgender. I am kinda sick and tired of atheists harassing everyone religious. I don't care much about the philosophy surrounding it, it is just that their collective behavior is arguably harassment, not a bit different to typical transphobic harassment about delusions etc. I believe that freedom of religious belief is a very basic right for people of all convictions. At the moment there is a huge divide: religious lgbtq+ people who are also anarchist (and might have been ostracized by their religious community on top of everything else) have no place to go without facing atheist harassment, and this is how there is no place to discuss faith together with politics and identity. So, here goes, I want to start this discussion with people who would like to see sth like this happening.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Gonna go against the grain and say that you are totally valid for wanting a space that is accepting of your faith, politics, and identity.

As an anarchist, I get being ostracized for political beliefs for sure. I myself am non-religious but have met a lot of Christian and Muslim anarchists. It's hard finding leftist spaces that aren't rapidly anti-religious on the best of days, let alone ones that are also lgbt positive. Wish I had easy solutions.

I run a community for trans feminine people where anyone is allowed to post regardless of their faith. I'm pretty sure most of the other lgbt spaces on blahaj.zone would be open to the kinds of discussions you're interested in.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Seconding this! Honestly the aggressive anti-religious attitude that seems to be popular on Fedi and (and big subreddits as well) annoys me to no end, and it always has an air of wanting to feel superior about it.

Spirituality can be a good, helpful, thing that anyone should be allowed to practice. It doesn't help that people always seem to equate religion itself with big institutions or particularly bigoted sub-groups.

I don't know if this incoherent rant makes any sense, anyway you're valid and I support you!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (4 children)

You can have beliefs. But most religions are actively anti-LGBT, so you are in a bit of a pickle here. Associating yourself with an intolerant group is going to attract hostility for people who fight intolerance. And the paradoxical situation you seem to be here leaves you on the wrong side of both sides.

If your beliefs are proper beliefs (and not weird crap from religions) no atheist can ever have an argument against that.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

So yes, exactly the fact that many religions are anti-LGBT is a point of identity conflict for many people. Some LGBTQ+ people might have been religious before realizing or coming out. So this is a point of discussion in itself. And most leftish people wouldn't really care to have it. Ergo, a need for a "space."

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Being religious does not mean being orthodox. And even among orthodox religious people there's a lot of variability in beliefs. Religious people are absolutely welcome in LGBT communities, given that they aren't bigoted towards queer people. If you are queer positive and support queer rights, then it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. Lots of queer people are religious as well. Queer spaces are for them too.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Judging people for their demographic because you associate that demographic with behavior you find unacceptable is dumb

Your judgement is with the behaviour, not the demographic. If you wanna criticize religion's tendency to advocate cruelty towards queer folks that's a point worth fighting for, but painting an entire group with the same brush and treating an individual with hostility based on how you perceive others from that demographic is dumb.

That's the same logic bigotry is often cut from.

Edit: corrected "other" to "others"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

There are DOZENS of people in the same boat!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can't help you with the political side because as long as the place is LGBTQ+-friendly and anti-bigotry I tend not to care, and I try to avoid overtly political spaces online for my own peace of mind. But as an LGBTQ+ agnostic who was raised with a religious background, I can tell you some places I found on Reddit. I know it's kind of sacrilege to direct people there, especially on the Fediverse where a lot of us left Reddit for here, but I figure looking for people who will accept you instead of tossing vitriol your way takes priority here, just like I would not begrudge anyone who relies on r/stopdrinking for staying.

No idea what your religion is, this reflects my own background, so sorry in advance if it is not useful, but at least you'll know you are not alone.

r/QueerTheology, r/OpenChristian and a ton of the Related Subreddits on their sidebar. I remember r/OpenCatholic, r/GayChristians. If you click around on the sidebars of these I think they can also help you find related places for other religions and being LGBTQ+. I swear there was a subreddit for leftist Christians but I don't remember the name anymore. It might have died in the API drama or not.

Although as far as I know you might want to know that this is a place for promoting a new community, not searching for one. Not actually sure where you are supposed to go to search for one, though…

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Interesting, I will check those out. For the record, I phrased my way so to not be conviction specific or even religion specific. I would like to see questions exploring different religions, so perhaps queer theology is the closest. Sad that this should sent someone back to reddit though.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I don't have a need for this sort of community, but if you want a queer theists comm you should try making one. Though there may not be enough folks to sustain it; here on lemmy there often just aren't enough people to sustain small niche communities because if there aren't posts, nothing shows up on people's feed, and people forget the community exists. Which is a challenge since most people just lurk and don't post.

As an atheist myself I really don't see why so many people have decided to attack you for your way of relating to the world, unless there's some context I'm missing. The important thing is that you're kind, not whether you think there's a god or not.

Judging people for their demographic like what religion they subscribe to rather than how they treat people is stupid. If you're a dick you're a dick, and if you're not a dick you're not. It's not complicated.

I don't give a shit if someone is religious, I give a shit if you're kind. My apologies for the shitty attitude of replies in this thread OP

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

It would help if you identified which religion. There absolutely is a vibrant queer pagan community, but it sounds like that's not what you're talking about.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Putting personal thoughts aside, Imma be blunt and say this seems kinda hyper-specific for a community.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Christian anarchism is actually one of the oldest forms of anarchism. Many early anarchists were Christian and derived their political beliefs from gospel.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I'm pretty sure my church's diocese allows gay and women priests, but I think for a lot of people it's kind of a "too little, way too fucking late" type of thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

A. Perhaps when people call out your bad logic you should reconsider your logic rather than going "They're persecuting me!" Freedom to express your ideas is not freedom from having those ideas critiqued or debated, and in my experience a LOT of religious people equate the two.

B. Read the rules before posting, maybe? This community is for advertising communities you've already created.

C. If you do actually create said community and advertise here, be prepared to be downvoted to hell again.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No bad logic here.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

"no bad logic" indeed. It's well known that abrahamic god loves lgbtq+ communities. Cities that host these communities were always awarded by the said god.

but maybe op was writing about Buddhism? or one of the Shamanisms? Or maybe their gods are Olympian?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

https://stmichaels.org.au/the-church/lgbtqia-affirmation/

The abrahamic god preaches tolerance of all walks of life. One passage of the bible gets misinterpreted to preach intolerance and hate. You are literally being what the OP is describing right now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

yes, you're right, history is full of examples of their tolerance. These 3 religions radiated love all throughout our history and today is no exception

🤣

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

You might be overgeneralizing. I have never posted anything religion related exactly because I see how religious people are treated online, and you know it just felt like shutting up for LGBTQ+ issues in school because speaking up would get you in trouble too. Sounds like bullying to me. Also, atheists shit on all religious people unprovoked in their own niches, like all the time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Cool

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Each day on Lemmy I scroll and scroll and then I reach a headline where after reading it I have to parse what it says. And then I realize it's gibberish. And then I realize it's the bottom of the feed and what I'm reading has a negative score.

Today this was that post.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Love your lack of interest in learning about people with different beliefs and identities from you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's certainly one way to read it. Except you don't know anything else about me. The problem isn't the interest in other identities. The problem is the complete clusterfuck of identities presented in that headline. Each additional descriptor narrows down the field of people it's talking about until you end up with n=1. It's so incredibly niche that most people, including myself, can't even picture what must be going on in the heads of these people. Maybe if there was a poster child that would help. But it would take a 30 minute podcast interview to delve into all of those aspects and help it all make sense. Just trying to square the religion plus anarchy section makes the brain hurt. And then we get more niche after that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Christian Anarchy specifically has a long history dating in some ways back to the early church period. A very direct interpretation of the New Testament clearly directs one to renounce wealth inequality and to view all people as equals. Especially the beatitudes from the sermon on the mount, which literally says that the poor and persecuted are blessed and will be the ones to go to heaven. Many Christian anarchists view the violence of the state as inherently incompatible with Jesus's command in the antithesis "to love thy enemy" and "turn the other cheek." It is also commonly argued that nationalism is an example of idolatry, which is condemned in the ten commandments.

Jesus himself lived what can only be described as a bohemian lifestyle. He ejected the merchants from the second temple. He criticized kings and merchants. He was a willing martyr, willing to die rather than to resist violently.

All these things contribute to the long-standing traditions of Christian Anarchy. A very literal interpretation of his teachings and emulation of his way of life leads one pretty naturally to anarchy. There exist anarchist communities in many major religions.