this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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UFOs

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What are the odds an extraterrestrial being would have the exact same features as most mammals on earth?

And why is it made of playdoh?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, even the fucking bone are just deformed human bones. What are the odds that beings that evolved in a totally different tree of life have almost the same bones as an earth fish that went quadruped then biped?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not defending the probably fake stuff in the article but the chance we have encountering non human intelligence hidden on earth or that earth life was created by alien design are not much lower then those chances to encounter completely exotic different evolved life.

We dont know the nature of UAP. Aliens? Time travelers? Alternative earth dimension beings? A weather illusion? No one can tell.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. It is less likely. It not only assumes that (a) Aliens exist and that they (b) could or can travel to earth and that they (c) do that without being noticed so far. It also adds that they (d) have the ability to create complex life. Also, non-human intelligence hidden on earth is even more unlikely than any of that since we know the amount of fuss any halfway intelligent creature creates.

  2. These UAP videos have been debunked over and over and quite conclusively. I recommend this as an overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhAC2YiYHs

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well we are in a conversation entertaining the theory of humans having alien corpses as is the point of the article

We can assume hypothetically we are at a stage where they exist. If we assume they don’t then your point that they appear to humanoid holds no further argument. That they would be here on earth would means either one of two things. They have the tech to travel huge distances or they have where already here.

There allot of ideas of how alien live could look and how a cross species encounter would look like. One that regularly pops up is that a species capable of traveling beyond the speed of light will also be advanced enough to create bio engineered bodies.

If aliens suddenly appear on earth the chance that they would be a bioengineered body build part with earth/human dna so to be able to breath and move on our planet while controlled from a safe distance is not much more far fetched then the premises that aliens exist and are on earth under any other scenario.

Uap are being studied by scientists all over the world. Its not limited to what the US talks about. The fact is that they are unknown phenomenon till they are not. There is no proven conclusion in any direction.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That is just a lot of conjecture regarding what aliens can or cannot do. It is parsimonious to assume that each leap in technology is extremely hard, as it is for us.

Spaceflight is something humans can do to some extent and it is not too far fetched that humans could build stuff like generation ships within few generations if we put our minds to it. There is currently no known or proven way to do faster than light travel and it is highly likely that it is impossible from our current understanding of physics. So why do we assume aliens can break physics just by existing?

Same goes for biology and changing your body shape via genetics or creating complex life. We can’t do it and it does not seem like it will be possible, especially to an extent that would be necessary for this scenario. And even if possible, why? Why change into some weird body instead of the one you adapted to use and augment that with technology which is certainly possible, even humans can do that to an extent that allows us to survive in almost any environment.

The most likely thing by far would be alien generation ships or extremely long lived species with somewhat more advanced space travel and other technology. Anything else is basically science fiction/magic without basis in actual science. So why would we assume that aliens do all of that by merit of being aliens? Expecting omnipotent visitors is usually the domain of religion.

This applies to UAPs as well. As long as you can think of any explanation , no matter how contrived, based in our current understanding of physics it is extremely preferable to physics breaking aliens.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would disagree on the creating complex life. Science has shown very capable but is limited by law as genetic engineering is quite controversial.

I simply find the idea that some exotic far more advanced life has figured out how to build biological remote controlled drones designed to function in their work environment while they themselves stay home sounds more plausible then a huge nomad ship that works entire generations to get somewhere. The first sounds like an eventual phase of any advanced society i can think off. The second sounds like space refugees in a dire situation.

Theres no way to break physics, you can only understand them well enough to apply them in seemingly magical ways.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Genetic engineering can do a lot. However, all laws be damned (which they almost are for many non vertebrate life forms) we are nowhere near creating anything resembling biological drones, or even sure that it’s possible to a useful extent. Also why use biological drones for a long journey instead of mechanical ones that are well suited to long hibernations and high radios environments? Also they can do stuff like send radio signals or take photos which would be useful for exploration. Same as physics, why do aliens get a free pass on what is basically biology magic?

Regarding physics, we have a very good and extensive understanding of the laws of physics. Thermodynamics and other rules of motion, speed and energy are very well studied and I don’t think there have been big surprises in a long time. So if aliens are doing what people are claiming the UAPs are doing, they are clearly breaking the laws of physics as we know them, so other explanations are most likely to be true (see the video linked in my other comment).

Saying stuff like “advanced physics is indistinguishable from magic” may be true if we’re talking about the knowledge of the average person and special little magic tricks (superconductors levitating magnets for example), but dismissing fundamental principles like that is just handwaving away any basis of our current understanding of reality and opening the door to wishful thinking and alien magic.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also why use biological drones for a long journey instead of mechanical ones that are well suited to long hibernations and high radios environments?

That assumes that the biological drones are created before the travel begins. It also assumes that such biological drones are not suitable for long hibernations, while on Earth such species do exist. It also assumes that they only make biological drones or mechanical ones, but not both.

We don't know what we don't know, or how far technology can go, so it doesn't make sense to say "aliens can't do this because we can't" or "because we find it implausible".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s just more likely for them to follow the rules of the world as we know them as it is the most parsimonious explanation. In science you have to be parsimonious.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I get where you are coming from, and I certainly agree that it would take a great deal of evidence for any of these more complex explanations to take hold broadly. Concrete quantifiable evidence has been very lacking so far.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are multiple theories about how uap are moving the way we perceive it. All outlandish hypotheticals but none are disproven.

My favorites to think about:

  • manipulation of spacetime: we know this is possible thanks to black holes but we havent figured out how or why yet.

  • multi-dimensional objects interjects with our space: just like a 3d ball object can appear, change size, and disappear by rolling trough a 2d plane.

  • advanced understanding and maybe manipulation of a planets electromagnetic field allowing for precise pulling/push of an object: In my head this would require subsurface station or relay points, wouldn’t work in space but with what i’ve seen of human progress we might archive this ourselves in the near future.

About the practicality of bioengineering i disagree that mechanical drones would be superior. They require resources and energy to build and move around. Take a lot of time to design and are rarely capable of doing anything beyond their design scope. A biological lifeforms could be vat grown pretty much at location build for whatever purpose you need. There gonna be on earth? Maybe a set of lungs to get all the free energy from the air and hands to interact with human infrastructure.

The idea that only machines are capable of sending signals and taking photos seems moot as we humans have gotten very close to extracting images straight from the brain and bats having been using echo location forever.

Disagreeing aside. This has been a really cool discussion, we just tackle it from different perspectives, which is ok if not an ideal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The actual recorded evidence for UAPs needs none of these complicated explanations to be explained by mundane occurrences (see the videos I linked previously).

Growing completely new animals on location would be an enormous feat, especially if you can’t know beforehand what you will be encountering. It still seems easier to me to have a robot Lego set with you that you can just assemble into the shape you need.

I’m not saying that biologicals are unable to send signals (otherwise people couldn’t talk), I’m saying radio signals since they are the kind of signal you need for long distance communication. And extracting images from a brain is probably much worse than taking a photo with something that can be produced by a civilisation that can do this easily.

Yes it has been an interesting and civil discussion, which is nice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Our current level of this tech is indeed far from real footage reality but still very impressive, there are a few groups working on different angles to properly invent this tech

https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxje8n/researchers-use-ai-to-generate-images-based-on-peoples-brain-activity#

I actually like to take that hypothetical much further into the potential of streaming consciousness. But then we’re getting in almost pure sci fi terrain. It “sounds” more reasonable for a bio engineered lifeform then a machine to be capable of housing consciousness.

I fully understand if you cant take me serious anymore at that line, but when i am entertaining the idea that aliens are already here then i can only picture them as vastly intellectually superior because i feel like humans have only just scratched the initial surface of our potential and are a very long way from reaching another solar system. (Even with a generational ship)

Absolutely no scientific value beyond this point:

The result of conciouss streaming would be that a superior species would never need to endanger themselves. It would go like this:

An automated vessel travels the galaxy discovering interesting planets, like those containing life.

Some initial samples are collected to make up the environment of the planet and how the local life manages to survive on it.

Local dna of a dominating species is cloned and made compatible with their own.

Intellectually bored aliens stream their consciousness to the bio vessel in a way that we can only refer to as “like full dive vr” interacting with alien worlds and life is a common and mentally stimulating hobby. They get to experience the other world realities with a real body with no downsides or mortality.

Theres some moral dilema with this strain of thoughts like would the bio engineered creature not have a mind of its own.

As a lover of science and the mysteries of the universe it makes sense to me that any society smart enough to to destroy themselves will at some point evolve towards

1 - the levels of required science become not only possible but common knowledge as the universe literally runs out of scientific secrets.

1- quality of life, freedom and luxury reaches the point where space exploration and trying to understand/support other lifeforms becomes the only pastime still yielding meaningfull reward.

There is absolutely nothing from the recorded uaps that points toward this though, i am overall quite sceptical about the more official US disclose and rather focus on patterns in the bigger body of mostly nonsense stories. Some frequent patterns being the appearance of humanoid “greys” wearing no clothes and having no genitals and technology wise no buttons, handles, screens or interfeces. Take only with your most delicious grains of salt. It is friday after all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It’s a cool idea, I’ll give you that. Kinda like avatar. We’ll have to see if any credible evidence for extraterrestrial life turns up. I’m certainly hoping I’ll see it in my lifetime.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Surprising, considering there is no evidence of that.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Ok, thanks for the valuable input

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Artistic recreation with craft clay!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Disclaimer: I think it is clear at this point that the these are dolls.

What are the odds an extraterrestrial being would have the exact same features as most mammals on earth?

Neither the presence of human DNA nor a humanoid anatomy necessarily determine that a species must have an evolutionary relationship with humans. If an advanced alien species had reached our planet long ago, they could have engineered a biological lifeform to interface with life on our planet, not entirely unlike we sometimes send animal-mimicking robots to a colony in order to study animal behavior.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The claims by the self-claimed ‘ufologist’ have not been proven and Mr Maussan has previously been associated with claims of discoveries that have later been debunked.

Literally all you need to know here.

Though, this completely nonsense paragraph is good for a laugh.

Mr Maussan told attendees the specimens had been studied by scientists at the Autonomous National University of Mexico (UNAM) who were able to draw DNA evidence using radiocarbon dating. After comparisons were made to other DNA samples, it was found that over 30% of the specimens’ DNA was “unknown”, he said.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They didn't get specific but the guy was involved in producing fake dolls and holding them out as alien corpses.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Naturally they look like stereotypical grey aliens.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Uhhhhh.....the Alien seems to be into Rectal Activity a fair bit.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

They say they found what appear to be eggs through x-rays, but they haven't opened them up to check?
What are they waiting for? To check it's religion before dumping it in the sea? That's rather suspicious to me. Also the play dough thing.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. Fingers won't work with that many phalanges, if it were somehow possible it would require massive forearm muscles that would require a large larger carriage to support.
  2. It's neck would be entirely incapable of supporting it's head.
  3. They lack an opposable digit.
  4. So many of the bones lack any kind of rigid support. If this was a real creature it would likely be jelly flopping around.
  5. Mouth is fat too small to be useful and without teeth it would be impossible for it to consume any kind of nourishment to survive.
  6. Limbs seem like they are all of different sizes to each other and the arms and legs appear to be severed, I'm going to guess that someone was just cutting them off and not actually measuring while they made these things.
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It looks like some claymation thing they found in a studio lol

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm very skeptical as well, but most of these comments are the worst. Zero effort Reddit-type posts that contribute nothing.

Here are two live translation comments of the same testimony from r/ufos:

The anatomy portion was spoken in a personal capacity by Dr. Jose Salce Benitez who had 30 years in the Mexican Navy, currently the director of the Navy's Scientific Health Institute and was at one point the director of the Navy's Medical Forensic Service.

  • Bodies covered in a diatomic white powder that granted desiccation for extreme natural preservation, was carbon14 dated to: very fkn old (around 1000y)
  • Tridactyl (3 fingers 3 toes) no carpals or tarsals with fingers going straight to armbones. I had a hard time with some specifics around here but they cannot grip thumb-wise and as such have to wrap their fingies around objects
  • Circular, complete and continuous ribs, having around 14
  • Deep/concave cervical spine (neckbones) with other features hinting that the head is retractable similar to turtles
  • Strong but very light bone structure much like a bird
  • Pneumatized (air/gas formed) cranial cavity, making a large space for oversized brain matter
  • Orthopedic implants perfectly fused with skin and bone, composed of what we consider metals for spacing structures and equipment such as cadmium & osmium
  • Ocular orbits very broad granting wide field of vision
  • A jaw joint, but no teeth. They could swallow foods but not chew
  • Spine connects to the center of cranial floor, a rarity that does not occur in primates who have a rear position
  • Intact oviducts (fallopian tubes) containing eggs, alleges this is impossible to falsify
  • Very broad range of motion in their shoulder joints
  • Specimen have intact fingerprints, that are linear and horizontal as opposed to a human's circular prints
  • Unique DNA not matching over a million existing sequences. 70% similar to known DNA, 30% unknown. For relevance, lists that humans are less than %5 different to primates and 15% to bacteria meaning the 30% or more the specimen contain is far outside terrestrial parameters

In summary, the bodies are a non-human species presenting irrefutable differences to written biology/ taxonomy of the evolutionary tree with 0 common ancestors or descendants

And a second one, with slightly different details:

Im not very good at Spanish, but the part where the Forensic Science specialist describes the bodies:

  • Bodies 60 cm tall covered in a white powder that under electron microscopy are revealed to be a type of common algae (diatom), which preserves the bodies and inhibits bacterial growth, naturally conserving the bodies. Humanoid structure with hands and feet having only three 'fingers'. The bones show signs of wear in the place where you'd expect from motion, and they are tough, but light, like a bird's.
  • The head is very large relative to the body. The cranium is likewise tough but lightweight, with a large intracranial cavity which contained a large brain. The eyeholes are very large and would permit great stereoscopic vision. Very short nasal cavities, and a mouth cavity that by its mandibular articulation and complete absence of teeth indicates they ate by drinking and cannot masticate.
  • The neck is strangely connected to the center of the skull, which is unusual because in primates the neck is usually joined at the back of the skull. The 4 or 5 cervical vertebrae suggest that the neck was slgihtly retractable, like a tortoise. The beginning of the thorax has joints to the arms similar to a bird's. The ribcages bones are completely continuous and circular and the space between them is small. In the abdomen we can see the presence of three eggs, and in the abdominal cavity, using tomography we can see at the milimetric level that there exist oviducts containing milimetric eggs, suggesting this creature was in a process of constant gestation. This is further proof they are biological and organical, as their method of reproduction including the milimetric eggs in the oviducts would be impossible to fake.
  • We can also observe through tomography the muscles, ligaments, blood vessels and organs and organelles that are yet to be defined in future studies. There is complete harmony in the wear down near all the joints, consistent with their biomechanical locomotion that ends in fingers that have 5 falanges used to grab and manipulate objects (since they have no thumbs). They dont have carpal or tarsus bones, the falanges connect directly to the arm and forearm bones. They find microscopic bubbles(?) in the fingers which they clame are impossible to fake. He makes a comment on them having a square something I cannot translate, being weird as most animals on this planet have them round or circular.
  • Some of the bodies have metallic implants perfectly lodged into their bodies and up to the skin, fused with it. The metals are several combinations of which the worthy mentions are osmium and cadmium (osmium is the rarest precious metal on Earth and the Universe, we use it in satellite communication).
  • The DNA results were compared with over 1000000 known species, and the results show that on one of them, 70% of its genetic material matches known sequences, leaving a difference of unidentified 30%. This is relevant because humans relative to primates have less than 5% difference, and have less than 15% when compared to bacteria. The results are published online, free for anyone to research. Maybe users more experienced in Spanish can translate the part they mention after describing the fingers, I did what I could.
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Pictures of***

Until they have the rotting corpses out on display for all, then it's probably some bullshit

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

"The two small alleged alien corpses, retrieved from Cusco, Peru, were presented in windowed boxes in Mexico City on Wednesday"

To make it even clearer, the article says that there are, in fact, corpses on display. Helps to actually read the article

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

first sentence says alleged alien corpses, second just says corpses.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Of course it's alleged corpses, if we knew they were definitely alien corpses we wouldn't have this discussion

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

I think you can (and are encouraged to) actually visit them. I don't know how this skepticism can be helpful, especially in a UFO-specific community.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Or, ancient mummy misidentified by ignorant idiots. One of those two likely.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Looks like someone's art project. Those are stones.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Ayyylmao. Notice that the aliens are almost always in fuckable size and shape. Where's my Shoggoth Ubbo-Sathla ayyliums?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I want to believe