this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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1
How do you make someone understand that being drafted by force and ordered to invade another country is not a good thing? (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
25 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

As title, if you have post or link any useful resource you have

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Even though op's post history clearly points to the angle they're trying to get across, I'll answer for ya.

You educate the Russians. They're living in a closed room and are being force fed bullshit so Ukraine looks like the bad guys. Once they're educated and realize what the hell is going on, there will be some uproar to them being drafted and forced to fight Ukraine who has done nothing wrong. Maybe then, they'll stand up to Putin and take his fucking ass out and this shit can be over. At that point maybe Russia can turn it around and become a productive member of society.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

perhaps should start by taking your own advice, stepping out of your echo chamber, and educating yourself on what's going on https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/who-caused-the-ukraine-war

edit: Worth noting how despite all the screeching and downvoting, radlibs can't actually make any counterpoints to what Mearsheimer says.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Russia invaded Ukraine. All anyone besides tankies and trolls need to know.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's right history started in 2022, nothing happened before that. You are very intelligent.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for the compliment, if you keep reading outside your safe space and opinion articles, you'll get there too!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

if only you would take your own advice there buddy, but we both know you won't

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Take the L bro, you earned it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

says the bro who has no concept of history without a hint of irony

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

Still going? Lol, pathetic

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Dude we couped Ukraine in 2014 and got them to kill tens of thousands of civilians in the 2 independent republics. We were supporting Ukranian nationalism, which is aligned with naziism for quite a while. Decades. Euromaiden happened because of us. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think it's more fruitful to look at who benefits from the Ukrainian war.

Life for the average Ukrainian will not be radically different under Russian rule. Most of them will get up, go to work the same job they always have and funnel as much money as possible to those who already have it.

It just so happens that under Russian rule, Russian rulers will be making profit instead of Ukrainian rulers. The people actually fighting the wars never benefit and the ones who benefit never fight.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's pretty obvious that the only country that benefits from the war is the US. Don't take my word for it though, RAND wrote a whole study explaining how in detail https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

It's also absolutely phenomenal that people think Russia needs Ukraine to make profit when it's already the largest country in the world with plenty of undeveloped resources. If you think countries benefit from having to fight a war, then you might wan to learn a bit of history.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

I actually showed that article about a year ago to a co-worker of mine. LMAO

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I've read the contents of your link and I can see how one would fall for these arguments. But I can already point to a couple flaws:

It doesn't matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade. Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn't matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

Third, this didn't start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn't just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Seems like there are a couple of flaws in your own narrative there.

It doesn’t matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade.

Russia did exercise this choice for whole eight years. That's what Minsk agreements were about, and now prominent western officials have come out and admitted on record that the goal of the agreements was in fact to give more time for Ukraine to arm itself.

Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn’t matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

Third, this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn’t just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution. I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

I'm not going to read the whole minutes. Can you quote please what you are referring to?

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

This seems to be whataboutism. Do you have any evidence for the US causing the euromaidan and subsequent revolution? Seems to me like the people were fed up with the shit that ol' Viktor was peddling.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution.

Did anyone from the West ever conquer anything that belonged to Russia? Russia answered with violence for nothing. Notice how there's a string of attacks on territories that weren't actually Russia's in recent history.

 I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

Classic distraction scheme. Attacking the person instead of the point. Not even sure why I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and engaged with you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

dude, Russia complained to the UN and obviously NATO and the US many many many many many many times. You're being brainwashed by US media, which is 100% ALL controlled by the CIA. For basics, you should simply look at what Russia's foreign diplomats are saying. They speak clearly and don't bullshit. Weigh what the two sides say. Simply put, the US just makes up childish stories with no factual basis behind them and Russia gives long factual history lessons.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What you linked does not support the statement that NATO choose violence by not negotiating.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

It very clearly does. NATO kept pushing towards Russia for decades after USSR dissolved. Russia tried to find a peaceful compromise with NATO this whole time. Yet, here you are pretending that it's actually Russia that won't compromise.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So, veteran here. I've tried to talk people out of joining the military or at least trying to avoid jobs with high probability of seeing combat. Usually the result is they just start prying about what combat is like and make statements about how much they want to experience it.

Another tack I haven't tried but it might be more effective, is to describe how miserable it is to have the stench of a burn pit wafting over you, always wondering if the distant gunfire will move in your direction, being stuck manning a 24/7 watch where if even one person who can do that job dies or is otherwise incapacitated you will be stuck doing 12hr shifts instead of 8. Then you get back home and have to fight tooth and nail for benefits from the country that fucked your life up in the first place.

War is hell, coming home is hell, forcing that on someone can only be justified if they are literally at home fighting off an invading force.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

forcing that on someone can only be justified if they are literally at home fighting off an invading force.

I believe abolish someone rights is never a good thing. If you are fighting against someone that wants to take these away you have even more reason to respect these rights and stand for them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I see you'd rather die kneeling than standing.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I see you’re confusing a state with a people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do you think the people of Ukraine want to be invaded by Russia?

You know the same Russia that is constantly killing loads of civilians and is repressing their own people.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

I’m sure many eastern Ukrainians who were getting killed and repressed by their own people for a decade did. Some of them explicitly requested Russian intervention.

.
The post-2014 coup annexation of Crimea want as smoothly as it did because many of the residents wanted it.