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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 70 points 2 weeks ago

I used to be very opposed to deer hunting. Until I took a biology course and there was some discussion about how humans have eliminated, or nearly eliminated all their natural predators in the United States.

The way their population ends up being controlled in the absence of those predators is disease, famine, and cars. Unless we hunt them sufficiently in areas where wolves in particular have been eliminated.

If you are hunting and wasting the resources of an animal you've culled, it's absolutely unethical. But if you're using all of the resources you can provide by the animal, and you're hunting in an area where the only natural population control mechanisms are famine and disease, I'd argue that's the most ethical way you can hunt in a modern society.

[-] [email protected] 23 points 2 weeks ago

Also organizations like hunting lodges put a lot of effort and money into wildlife conservation and wilderness preservation. There's a lot of natural habitat that is protected today specifically because of the work of groups of hunters. Without them that land would have been used for something else. It's obviously self-interested, but it benefits more than just them.

[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

Also, due to the Pittman-Robertson Act, taxes from hunting and fishing equipment and licenses are earmarked for wildlife conservation. Which is a good thing, but potentially becoming a problem as fewer people in younger generations are hunters, meaning less funding for conservation

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

I think if factory farming were more stringently regulated a lot more people would hunt than buy a $500 steak.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 weeks ago

Chronic Wasting Disease is a particularly scary prion disease that is highly dependent on deer population density.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

IMO this makes "wasting" the meat more acceptable, because the consumption of wild venison could lead to an outbreak of this in humans

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago

I agree but I do have a little issue with the "wasting resources" part, that's a very anthropocentric view to take. There's an entire ecosystem of organisms that would love to use those resources, and in many cases leaving the carcass behind is better for that system than taking it away and depleting it of that biomass. There's obviously a lot of "ifs" involved but I wouldn't generalise by saying that because a human didn't get to eat it the resource was "wasted".

It's unfortunate that our ancestors have left us with this kind of ecological trolley problem, where in order to keep the system balanced and prevent collapse we're obligated to go out and kill a lot of creatures, but such is the world we've inherited.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

This relates to Britain, not the United States. Results will be different.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

What are the natural predators of deer in Britain?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

As someone else mentioned, it used to be wolves, lynxes, bears etc. But we killed them all so that humans could eat the deer. Then hunting deer became the sport of the king and associated royalty. This is why eating venison became associated with wealth and only eaten on special occasions. When it used to be available for all.

We now have a problem as there is no natural predator to keep the numbers down.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

I’d argue that even if you waste everything from hunting deer, in most areas of the US fact their is now one less deer is definite ecological benefit all on its own.

A forest with a large deer population where people don’t landscape and fence every tree is going to become either a near monoculture with the only exceptions being invasive species. This is because deer eat most but not all native saplings before they can grow to the point they can survive a deer attack, and with most forests in the US having far, far higher populations than natural we get far fewer native trees than natural.

Normally anything like modern deer levels would have led to a population explosion of predators to keep them in check, but because most deer predators are far more vulnerable to human presence, activity, and historical control efforts than deer, which thrive in human dominated areas, the result has been significant damage to forests.

As such, anything like hunting that can lower the deer population back towards natural is very enthical as it doing far more to protect the forest than any number of newly planted saplings could ever do. Your mileage may very, all forests arn’t the same, check the ecology of your local forest before hunting to figure out what the forest needs more of and what it need less of, etc…

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[-] [email protected] 43 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I'm guessing farmed meat isn't on the list, because adding it becomes an anchor that throws everything else off. It's easily more brutal than a circus but has single-digit non-participation, and people don't want to look inconsistent.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago

I wonder now, what happens to the results if you put the question about factory farming at either the beginning or the very end?

My guess is that when at the beginning, the percentages would shift significantly into the acceptable range because of the not wanting to look inconsistent.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Oh bother I can't remember who did the study, but Earthling Ed in his book talks about it, whereby participants were either served meat or not during questions regarding diet, and those who were eating meat became almost obtusely against vegan diets. I tried searching for it just now but can't think of the right keywords to find it.

[-] [email protected] 39 points 2 weeks ago

Surprised how many people were opposed to hunting deer with guns. I know that's super popular in some places.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 2 weeks ago

It makes more sense as the survey was conducted on British adults.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Ah, makes sense. In Texas, everyone does that lol.

[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

I wonder if this odd result is from the question not specifying trophy hunting vs. food hunting. If you eat meat it wouldn't make sense to be against food hunting, but it would make sense if you think they're hunting deer just to hang a big antler head on your wall

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

Good point. Most vegetarians and vegans I’ve met have had relatively favorable views of hunting for food, compared to animal agriculture, since it’s such a more sustainable and ethical way to acquire meat

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Well, it can be. I knew a guy who talked about some of his (incompetent) deer kills in a way that made me pretty sure he was extending the suffering deliberately. That or he was just a callous dick and a bad shot.

He did kill himself in a 4-wheeler accident though, so sucks to suck I guess.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago
  1. It’s British adults, not Americans. Private gun ownership is uncommon-to-rare, and hunting even less so.
  2. It’s British adults, so you need to read almost everything through the lens of classism and/or class jealousy. Most hunting in the UK is done by the upper class - there are genuine outdoorsmen hunting types but the norm is posh folk hunting for sport.
[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago
[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Class permeates British culture unlike any other European society. And it goes beyond the rich:poor divide you’d see in America or say France.

The upper class look down on the working and middle class, viewing any self made money with disdain. Unless you’re a blue blood your money doesn’t really count. Money is not the only factor.

The working class in turn tend to view anyone who tries to climb the ladder as a class traitor or someone who doesn’t know their place. “Crabs in a bucket” if you will. Self made success is sneered at the same as multi-generational inherited (and unearned) wealth.

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

The headline says British adults so it's not going to be applicable outside Britain.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think that was added in later, but ya, makes sense lol (or I'm blind, either one)

[-] [email protected] 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I used to be cool with the idea of elephant riding, seemed cool and it’s not like such a big animal is even going to notice a human on its shoulders. Then I was at a ren fair or something like one that had an elephant to ride. When we got in line for it I saw just what they do to get an elephant to walk around. I think you have to be a real piece of shit to poke an animal with a sharp stick all day for a job.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

They're also quite intelligent and are likely to be extremely aware of their captive situation. It's basically slavery.

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

Where is "eating animals from livestock"?

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

I think far less than 41% of the population actually won't wear leather. Also, apparently riding a donkey is worse than riding a horse, and dog races are worse than horse races.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

Note they merge 'somewhat unacceptable' and 'unacceptable' into the bars, which is.... a choice.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

Dog races are worse than horse races, mostly because the dogs are trained to be more-or-less psychotic. Horses, you can see as understanding the competition they're in and being (at least mostly) willing participants.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Can you explain about the dogs? I thought that while they aren't always treated well, running and chasing things is natural for them.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

I don't understand the opposition to mobile zoos of reptiles/snakes. Are people just voting 'ick' factor, or is there something horrifying I've missed?

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[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

Pretty surprised at the difference between leather and fur. Poor cows need better PR.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I’m surprised that deer hunting is shown as so unacceptable here. Who was sampled for this, and where do they live? I’m guessing not the Midwest lol

[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

The demographics sampled are adults from the UK.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

TIL you only need a 26% approval rate for a controversial practice to be widely legal and accepted.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

I don't understand why there are any who oppose riding horses

Is it bad for them or something?

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Who the fuck is in the 6% who are fine with dog fighting?

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

I'm pleasantly surprised at how many people are against fishing.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I'm by no means a vegan, but it has always weirded me out how people see no problem of dragging an animal out of the water by using a hook in the animal's mouth. Even weirder is it when people then throw the fish back into the sea to be "ethical". It's just plain recreational torture at that point.

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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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