this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2024
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Not so friendly reminder that musk specifically came up with, and pushed, for hyperloop knowing that it would never be made, as an effort to stop the development of highspeed rail in America and shift all political discussions of it because "something better is around the corner":

As I’ve written in my book, Musk admitted to his biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it. Several years ago, Musk said that public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.

source: new york times

Also: 2024 update, the total length of China's high-speed rail tracks has now reached well over 45,000 km, or 28,000 miles, by the end of 2023.

They are additionally five years ahead of schedule and expect to double the total number within ten years. And, before someone inevitably complains about "how expensive it is", they are turning over a net-profit of over $600M USD a year.

Via

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, China doesn't have to deal with eminent domain.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

And annoying stuff like human rights

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

I hope people realize that the issue isn’t musk but California’s reliance on the private sector to do public good.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable. It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China, nor can you make the assumption that it could be profitable in other markets.

There are a lot of conflicting reports on how profitable HSR is in China, the fact that government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable. After all they do want to sell their HSR technology globally.

HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected and projects need to pass a much higher threshold of review for environmental impact, etc. There are many major infrastructure projects in China that turn out to be poorly planned and executed years after they have been completed.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China

High efficiency public infrastructure doesn't add economic value because it won't show up on China's domestic ledger as "profit for shareholders". You heard it here first.

government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable

Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON'T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.

HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected

LO-fucking-L.

And that's just the modern stuff. Google "Robert Moses" if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

High efficiency public infrastructure doesn't add economic value because it won't show up on China's domestic ledger as "profit for shareholders". You heard it here first.

Weird you would write that when in the first sentence of my post, I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable to be justified. But hey I’m glad we agree on something, it’s great to find common ground!

Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON'T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.

If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating, feel free to put your money where your mouth is and invest in Chinese HSR companies. It could be a great investment opportunity for you.

LO-fucking-L.

In Iowa, an ongoing saga regarding a network of carbon dioxide pipelines proposed by carbon-capture companies has united predominantly conservative farmers and environmental activists on the issue of taking privately owned land for corporate gain. Despite feeling intimidated, the Averitts wouldn’t sell their 135-acre property, along with a 100-acre commercial site the family had hoped to develop. The company, Dominion Energy, ended up claiming the land anyway via eminent domain, the power to take private land for “public use,” which in recent years has been invoked with increasing frequency by oil and gas companies seeking to build new pipelines. After Dominion and its ACP partner, Duke Energy, canceled the Atlantic Coast Pipeline in July 2020, the Averitts, who had been in the process of challenging the company in court, regained control of their land, but not without a serious financial and emotional toll. Others along the ACP’s route—often rural communities that are disproportionately BIPOC, low-income, or both—have fared even worse in the aftermath of the canceled pipeline, which was going to run from West Virginia to North Carolina, and elsewhere in the country. And that's just the modern stuff. Google "Robert Moses" if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.

I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me. It is weird you would do that but hey thanks! The fact that the pipeline was tied and others were canceled because of the increased costs of eminent domain illustrates how it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable

If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.

The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don't profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.

If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating

You need more on the table than "Don't believe Chinese people, they're all lying to you". Hell, I'm not even sure what I'm not supposed to believe. You haven't cited a source much less challenged one.

I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me.

Don't trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?

it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.

Why do you think that is?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.

The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don't profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.

Weirder and weirder…you seem intent on misquoting me and taking my statements out of context. You left off the first part of my original statement:

Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable.

Once again thank you for agreeing with me (even if you didn’t realize it) and finding common ground.

If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating

You need more on the table than "Don't believe Chinese people, they're all lying to you". Hell, I'm not even sure what I'm not supposed to believe. You haven't cited a source much less challenged one.

Yet again you seem intent on taking my statements out of context. Even with my exact words listed above… Are you just trying to invent straw man arguments?

No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”, THAT IS YOUR OWN QUOTE. Quite frankly its very racist.

You can’t even cite or interpret my own text properly, why would I bother providing you with more advanced citations.

Don't trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?

I’m not even sure where to go with this racist rhetorical question. Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP, I have no qualms with the Chinese people. I’ve done direct business with Chinese business owners and in all my personal dealings they were honest and forthright.

Why do you think that is?

My original post covers why it is more expensive to build HSR in the US, I suggest going back and re-reading it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP

Is there any actual reason for this?

Other than the obvious, of course.

No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”

Do you know what the C in CCP stands for?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Feel free to educate yourself.

All of these have been debunked.

Do you also know what the CP in the CCP stands for?

The the largest political party on earth. Might as well say "I don't hate Americans, just all the Republicans plus all the Democrats"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

All of these have been debunked.

LMAO, now you’ve moved on from internet troll to delusional.

The the largest political party on earth. Might as well say "I don't hate Americans, just all the Republicans plus all the Democrats"

Not true at all, I never used any hate speech that has been your M.O. I stated don’t don’t believe the CCP. You are the one engaging in hate speech and straw man arguments.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

now you’ve moved on from internet troll to delusional

Americans are the most propagandized people on earth.

You believed the Vietnamese attacked you at the Gulf of Tonkin. You believed Saddam did 9/11. You believed vaccines cause autism and illegal immigrants gave your country COVID.

You're getting an eyeful of genocide in Gaza as we speak and yet you still think you need to defend the people perpetuating it, because Time Magazine says you should.

Now you're gearing up to throw away a generation of young men on some Pacific Island so that you can wage war on the folks who build your iPhones.

Enjoy yourself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Are you still going on with the straw man arguments? I never stated my position on any of the incidents you spewed. You state made up arguments and positions that I’ve never made just to pat yourself on the back when you win the imaginary argument I never engaged in.

You are delusional.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago

https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang#unsubstantiated

Photos and videos fallaciously used to prove, show, or insinuate either concentration camps or slave labor of Xinjiang people include:

An April 14, 2017 de-radicalization public talk at Luopu County Reform & Correction Centre (explanatory Twitter thread).

An August 12, 2017 arrest of pyramid fraudsters in Bijie, Guizhou (explanatory Twitter thread)

A video uploaded on September 17, 2019 appearing to show a routine prisoner transfer in what looks to be Bayingolin Mongol Autonomous Prefecture, with vests printed “Kashgar Detention House (喀什看守所).” (see Global Times, 2020-7-22, in response to the re-emergence of the video in summer 2020 and BBC’s confrontation of Chinese Ambassador to the United Kingdom Liu Xiaoming using the video on 2020-7-19) Detention Houses are otherwise normal infrastructure in today’s China. (see this Zhihu answer for one person’s experience staying 37 days in a Detention House, and this post about the work of a police personnel tasked to a Detention House) [Chinese language]

A December 21, 2019 transportation of suspected fraud criminals from Shanghai to Taiyuan by Taiyuan police (explanatory Twitter thread).

A stock photo of a Chilean shoe factory from 2010 (Reddit post)

Satellite imagery of assorted buildings in China, some of which are normal prisons and at least one of which is a 5-star apartment complex.

In some extreme cases, videos from other countries entirely (video was from Indonesia - part of what is being said is “ampun, pak, gak lagi” - have mercy, I won’t do it again), videos from a Taiwanese BDSM club, or edited and pixelated photos to try to push the narrative. 
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah it's amazing how fast and cheaply you can build infrastructure when there's no labour rights and no property rights.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And quality control

I would never set foot into a chinese Train

I have seen 3 Videos of derailed chinese Trains in the last 2 years and I have no idea how many more the CCP successfully covered up.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We have plenty of domestic derailments to go around, so I feel like this is just casting stones from our glass house. Although in our case it's not that the build quality is bad, it's that maintenance has been skipped for so long that everything is falling apart.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)
  1. "muddy water is also poisonous" is a bad thing to say when I say "you shouldn't drink arsenic"

  2. No, we don't. Switzerland is one of the safest countries for trains, we invented and implemented multiple security systems for trains, riding a train here is completely safe.

I know you probably assumed I'm from the same country as you ("we") and that your country isn't that save, but this assumption is wrong.

"We" don't have plenty of domestic derailments to go around.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, I'm not psychic, so for lack of appropriate context I'm going to naturally assume that you're talking from the perspective of an American in the thread about how China is destroying the United States (California specifically) in high speed rail production.

Now that I know better, feel free to disregard my comment.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but I never gave you a reason to assume that.

I simply talked about how insecure Chinese rail is. Nothing about the US or California. Frankly, you chose to just jump to conclusions, nothing natural about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If literally half the people online were Swiss, and had been since your childhood, it would be very natural of you to assume that most of the time when you're talking to someone, you're talking to a Swiss person.

You can try to paint him rude or assumptuous or anything, but I very much fail to see that. Yea there are those Americans who assume too much, too often, but this wasn't one of those times, and your reply with the "I'm not American how dare you" while not even saying you're Swiss is tonally really dickish and arrogant, but that's just my personal opinion on the matter.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The cult of musk is fucking disgusting.

It's abhorrent how much influence he has on public decisions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The man is a monster and his sycophantic followers are incapable of critical thought.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

incapable of critical thought.

Look in the mirror, bud.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

You're white knighting for a billionaire you fucking chud.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Why are you insulting someone who is agreeing with you...?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

To paraphrase the great Big Daddy Kane:

Anything goes when it comes to hos cos simpin' ain't easy!

Keep simpin' ya simp!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Search Thunderf00t on YouTube. Researched and sourced refutation of each of musk's many and always evolving lies, from an actual physicist with a PhD.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm down to reject bigots being bigots. But even a broken clock can be right twice a day.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

yes he's a scientist and has a lot of videos debunking tech bro pseudoscience, I just think it's worth knowing how muvh of an unhinged asshole he is

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago

thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames

Completely false.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I feel like we can talk about how Elon and mass transit in America are the worst without making poor comparison to China.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago

We can't compete with nationalized railroads.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 months ago

Yeah it's all Elon Musk's fault 🙄