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Considering switching over to Linux. My main concerns are with Music Production (Native Instruments, Bitwig, Arturia etc.) (feddit.de)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Hey,

atm i am considering switching over to linux on my main pc. I have some experience with different distros ( i have fedora on my laptop) but i am not sure if it is really worth it. I mainly use my PC for Music Production, some Gaming and graphics stuff (Affinity Suit).

For my music production i use a lot of stuff from Native Instruments. I have a Maschine mk3 as my hardware DAW (in combination with Maschine Software) and NI Komplete with lots of vsts. I also have some Arturia vsts and vsts from smaller companies (all paid). My Software DAW is Bitwig (wich has native Linux support). After some research i found out that there are ways to get at least some software from NI running with yarbrigde, but this does not account for my Maschine mk3 and seems very tedious and unstable. Also it is suggested that i have to use older versions of my software as the current version of Native Access does not run at all. I am willing to put in some effort but all of this seems a little bit too much. I also found out that you can run windows in a vm and give it direct access to hardware so i could Use my Maschine mk3 and all of the software of course. My main concern with this is, that i will end up using windows anyway so why bother switching to linux if it is basically just a host for Linux in this case.

Do any of you have experience with the soft and hardware i use under linux? Or maybe some suggestions how i could solve my problems? Is running windows in a vm a viable solution or should i just stick with windows? Any input is welcome and much appreciated!

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If music production is your main objective, I would suggest Windows. I do some home recordings as well and have quite a baggage of pluggings and tools that are either unavailable, not compatible or not up to date on Linux (I'm on an Arch based distro). I have Windows and Linux on two separate SSDs for this exact reason. I managed to set up my Linux system in a way where I can work on some projects and got most programs to work one way or another but I always encounter hardware issues that have to do with drivers, especially with some of my older equipment. If you have the the option you can install another drive on youtrlaptop and run both Windows and Linux.

Now, there are folks out there that do music on Linux but there is a lot of work to do to keep things running, especially if you use lots different softwares and pluggins.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

After some Research and reading through the answeres here i think you are right. I do appreciate all the suggestions, but ditching my vsts and especially my Hardware really isnt an Option for me. I have spent too much money on them and i love working with them, and for a lot of them, there really just is now alternative that cones close to the quality. I dont want to talk down on all the amazing work the foss community has created, but i hope people understand that i dont wabt abandon my (expensive) collection. And in the end, my goal is to make nusic and not tinker around with an operating system. Maybe i will try a dual Boot solution. It really is frustrating though, i would really like to switch to Linux and i dont mind to put some effort in. But it seems that as long as the companies behind all the software dont Support linux, i will have to Stick with Windows.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

This is probably going to be the right choice. Captive markets are a thing and its not always practical for individuals to get out of them. Changing a good worklfow isn't likely to be worth it unless there's a different workflow you want more.

I wanted what I get with Linux more than I wanted any particular element of what my creative workflow was on Windows, but I've never really been super comfortable with the DAW-VST paradigm for music production in general. I'm way happier having to put a bit more work into doing custom stuff my own way than being locked out of entire approaches because that's not how the software is intended to be used and I'm not in the target demographic for pricing. (I'm looking at you specifically, notch and touchdesigner.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I understand and using Windows for certain things is perfectly valid. Perhaps things will change in a few years and we'll be able to run all the plugins with a system similar to WINE, or something like that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

You could always set yourself up to switch to Linux in the future. Every time you buy new hardware, make sure it's Linux-compatible. It may take years, but changes in industry typically are slow so that you can still make money in the interim.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a music producer on YT called unfa who does all of his work on Linux. You may want to contact with him for specifics.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAYKj_peyESIMDp5LtHlH2A

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/channel/UCAYKj_peyESIMDp5LtHlH2A

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I use REAPER, which also has native Linux support and run most of my vsts over yabridge. Works really well for me overall but i try to use as much native foss vsts as possible. See https://safereddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/wntpyd/linux_plugins_thread_2022/ for some examples

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You certainly want to test out what you expect to use before moving. The advantage would also be finding apps that run natively on Linux. There certainly are some such DAW apps.

I'm using Manjaro KDE and my games are running fine under Proton on Steam Games. But I play Snowrunner, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc.

A tip on Windows VMs as I do keep one. I discovered that running one with it's Windows files rather on a separate partition formatted at NTFS, really works quite well for me (versus the VM sitting on one massive VM file on the Linux partition. Can see Chris' video about this at https://youtu.be/6KqqNsnkDlQ.

Nice thing for just testing Linux, is install it on an external drive, and boot with that. Then your existing machine is completely left as it is, and you can test Linux as it would really run on your computer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/6KqqNsnkDlQ

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks a lot for the Hint about the vm solution, i will defenitely Look further into it. The only problem with actually running Linux on my Hardware i can think of would be secure Boot. But this can be turned off (i needed it for Windows 11 and some docker stuff i played around with). Years ago i had a dual Boot solution with win 7 and Ubuntu. But in the end i was more on Windows (gaming on Linux was way worse bock then) and eventually kicked Ubuntu off my harddrive.

It isnt even that i have actual Problems with win11, in fact i have to say it runs well and very stable, at least on my System. Its more like an "ideological" Thing. I just want to have As little big corpo stuff as possible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Linux can also boot with EUFI (hope that is the right letters) as I converted mine to that. So it is recognised alongside my dual-boot Windows 10.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I use Bitwig on an Arch Based distro. It works really well. Thanks to the flatpak package of bitwig, your choice of distro should not matter that much (in regard to running bitwig). So far I've only used bitwig and vst/clap plugins with a native vst version (vcv rack for example) those also work great. So far, I have not tried to get windows plugins to work. But that's a Todo item for the future. I plan to use yabridge for this, but as you have read yourself, current NI plugins are a hassle and hardware specific plugins especially. I face similar issues with overbridge for my elektron machines...

At least when it comes to native Linux audio software like bitwig and reaper, my experience is highly positive. But the landscape is a lot smaller then on windows and for some stuff, and some things do require more reading and tinkering so I'm not recommending it to everyone but certainly encourage it. :)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Oh, and regarding the affinity tools: So far I have had no luck with getting them to run on Linux (tried different wine and proton configs, but I'm still learning). So far I've managed to do most of my gfx tasks with open source tools (Krita, natron), but I definitely miss the Affinity suite.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do share if you have experiences using yabridge with the flatpak distribution of Bitwig! My existing setup did not work with that, but the deb version worked ok on Debian, so I keep using that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks to your question I tried it out and found that there are some fundamental issues with getting yabridge to work with flatpak. Most of them described on these issues: https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge/issues/135 https://github.com/bitwig/bitwig-studio-flatpak/issues/24 so yeah. I might also have to switch to a different bitwig distribution or wait for a new solution to use windows vsts in bitwig.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the links! Once flatpak/yabridge works great I'll be able to use it with SteamDeck :).

I wonder though if this might need some additional functionality in flatpak itself..

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think you need to dick around with flatseal and I didn't get it to work. Same though, deb package through AUR works well for me with yabridge and almost every plugin I try.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have you tried Overwitch for elektron? I use it for the digitakt and it works really well. I have never used actual overbridge though so I don't know how it compares.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Oh wow. I did not know about that project. Will try that one out soon. Thanks a lot.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Check out traction

https://www.tracktion.com/

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like you have some investment into hardware and software not really designed with linux in mind. Running windows in a VM could work. There might be issues with graphics though if your VSTs/DAW have a lot of eye candy, as you'll usually use a virtual GPU with a VM. You could always try a windows VM inside windows whether it works OK, before committing to linux + VM. An alternative could be to have a dual boot setup. You could use linux for day to day things, and reboot into windows to do music production.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This is a great comment. If it's dabbling then absolutely, have fun! But it's a real self-administered kick in the nuts to squander serious investment in SW/HW just for bragging rights, cool as they are.

Dual boot is probably the (annoying) answer. Not sure on the efficacy of a windows VM for music production.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The big issue is not the DAW. Reaper will work fine (as well others, I'm sure). The issue is plugins, particularly wrt extended functionality with NI stuff (Maschine, etc.), and a variety of other ones, from Plugin Alliance, etc.

Yes, you could probably get a lot of this stuff to work (though to what extent, I don't know), but it will not be supported. If things start having issues, or if a new version comes out, there are no guarantees. I had a wierd glitch with a certain PA plugin but since I was using Reaper, they wouldn't support it - this was on windows.

Also, although you could likely get your interface to run, it'll not be supported.

In the end, if the fun for you is the challenge of making it work (even with duct tape and bailing wire) then go for it. It would honestly be fun.

However, if the goal is to make music, you run the risk of spending valuable time grinding away on compatibility issues - time that could be spent doing the music thing.

There's a reason why people gravitate towards MacOS for music - it just works, even more so than with Windows. That said, I just can't stand Apple computers (it's the walled garden that gets to me - YMMV - it's a personal choice) and settle for Windows on a home built PC with a healthy dose of WSL.

The other big thing holding me back is Adobe - lightroom, mobile, cloud, are all very much part of what I need. No joy there in *ix-land.

FWIW, I exclusively ran linux (and FreeBSD) for several years. Switched back to windows for the sake of compatibility with my workplace.

Let us know what if you end up trying it out - I am tempted to test it out too, but I am unlikely to switch.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would like to add that if you're eyeing switching to Linux in the future you may want to check before buying whether something supports Linux going forward. Also, you might want to make some noise on the forums so that companies understand that there's a growing demand for Linux support. I've been making music on Linux for quite a while but I've always bought DAWs (like Reaper, Bitwig, Renoise) and VSTs (U-He, ToneLib, etc) that already support Linux... trying to migrate a workflow from Windows to Linux could be pretty hard.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Second this, take it slow. As you buy new stuff, include Linux support in your decisions. If you have the option of two PCs, try Linux on one of them and keep a separate music production PC with windows.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Almost all audio plugins you likely use do have native Linux equivalents (but not through the same developer). Check out Ubuntu Studio. Also I think highly of Reaper as a DAW. Reaper is not FOSS, but it is Linux native.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hey thanks for the Suggestion. Ill definetly will look further into Ubuntu studio. As i understand it includes all the important audio settings and drivers.

For my DAW i use Bitwig which runs natively on Linux, so that would be no Problem. The issue is more with my Hardware, Maschine mk3, and the Software it needs to Operate properly. Also yes i know there is a lot of free vsts, i used them when i started making music years ago. But since then i spent a lot of money on proprietary vsts that in a lot of cases (not all obviously) are just better. Especially when it comes to live sampled Romplers like Kontakt. Ditching my collection of Software i bought is therefore really not an Option. I dont want to talk down foss vsts and DAWs, there is a lot of really great stuff. But i hope you can understand that i dont want to Throw hundreds of Euro worth of Software to the trash.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Went from FL Studio and a lot of windows only vsts to using Reaper in Fedora and some good FOSS plugins plus "Vital" and " decent sampler". Definitely changed up my workflow but feels better at the same time. I'll still open FL in "bottles"(compatibility program) to use some of the native cats in there but I don't even mess with yahbridge to make my paid windows vsts work. Just changed up the flow mostly.

Edit: vsts kept autocorrectung to cats, kept one in.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I have fedora on my laptop and pretty happy with it. I know Vital and it is a great synth. But my vst library Contains a lot of stuff with live sampled Instruments like strings, horns , guitars, Bass and so on and while there are foss alternatives that are decent, they are nowhere near the Quality of a lot of paid stuff (there are exceptions of course). I really dont feel comfortable with ditching the quality i am used to and basically Throw away all the money i have spent on them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Fair.

Some of your old proprietary plugins and hardware might work in Linux through a compatibility layer like WINE. Or it might work out of box, no software required. Or it might not work no matter what. It’ll be a bit of a crapshoot for each one.

I will say that JACK and Pipewire may make some of your hardware unnecessary, especially if your using it to get around Windows limited audio routing capabilities.

And of course MIDI stuff will generally work without issues. It’s MIDI.

I’ve never played with that Maschine mk3 so I couldn’t tell you how or it it will function.

Edit: autocorrect got me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

To add onto this, yabridge is a great tool to try out for using Windows VST's on Linux

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Those Linux eqivalents also (often) have Windows versions. You can test if they work for you and make the big switch if they do

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I'm on Ubuntu Studio and using Ardour (though I also got Reaper and have been meaning to try it out). There is a LinuxAudio community here on Lemmy you can visit to get some advice!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Ardour runs on Linux machines (because it was written for it iirc) and Reaper is working on RasPi iirc. You’ll have to dig deeper into those yourself, especially as they pertain to your VSTs and other software, but it’s not impossible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I'm actually interested too; are you looking for a desktop or laptop? My biggest hurdle is laptop availability and finding decent places to start shopping. How have you approached it? I know it's not ideal but I prefer laptops for work.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Last time I tried to use low latency audio on a Windows VM the latency was still horrendous. You could get closer to the desired result via some non-trivial virtualization where you passthrough a whole USB controller to Windows and you plug your hardware in it. Unfortunately that still isn't as low latency as native Windows. It might be possible to get there via further optimization like CPU core pinning but I didn't get there. I keep a laptop with Windows for the purpose.

TL;DR: Windows VM for low latency audio isn't an option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think you’re going to have a bad time. You could always just dual boot Linux and Windows; use Windows when you need to use good software.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I would highly recommend Linux Mint.

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