this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 128 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Step 1.) Send a command

Step 2.) Go to lunch

Step 3.) ???

Step 4.) Get back pretty pictures from mars

[–] [email protected] 61 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Didn't forget debugging, diagnosing, and reprogramming Voyage which has left the solar system.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 months ago

Can replace go to lunch with come back after the weekend.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, that was seriously impressive. I worked flight ops for a while. I couldn't imagine having to re-flash software from that far away.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Not only that, but on a computer that's in an unknown broken state

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

I know the frustration of trying to reprogram cheap Chinese esp32 knock offs that refuse to enter bootloader mode. Those nasa guys have to be some of the most patient people on earth. Up there with special education teachers.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm gonna need you to tell me step 0. I followed your instructions to the letter and all I got out of it was a very confused lunch.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well, first you invent the universe

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 2 months ago (1 children)

smh NASA's really gotta get an ethernet cable running to that thing

[–] [email protected] 78 points 2 months ago (3 children)

fun fact, that would make the transmission slower.

According to wikipedia cat5 cable has a propagation delay of 5.30 ns/m, which works out to about 62% of the speed of light. While radio waves propagate at the speed of light.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just have to wait until cat 9 comes out with gravitational lensing

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

Or we need to move Mars closer to plug it into a 6ft Ethernet.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, the reason ethernet is generally faster compared with wifi is mainly due to interference from physical objects between the device and the transmitter. Not as much an issue when you're issuing commands into the vacuum of space from large, high-powered antennas.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

hehe, imagine a tcp handshake with voyager

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Not as much an issue when you're issuing commands into the vacuum of space

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Radio waves always propagate at the speed of light, it's just that the effective speed of light in copper and glass fibre is lower than that in air/vacuum.

This means that if you have long cables at some distance you'll get a lower delay by using low earth orbit satellites like Starlink. Assuming a total distance via satellite of 1000km and the effective speed of light in glass fibre to be 2/3 c, cables over 667km will have a higher delay than the satellite.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Speed of light in fiberoptic cable is slower than c for a different reason. The light is in something close to vacuum, signals travel slower than c because the light doesn't follow a straight path, it zig zags bouncing off the walls.

A radio wave or laser in reasonable vacuum (in orbit for example) will be lower latency than a signal on a fiber link the same length

I'm expecting lower ping via starlink than fiber once starlink has laser links between satellites

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago

It's not like they "play" competitive real time over there. It's more turn based single player

[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do they have to race 12 year olds high on sugar and Adderall?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Come to think of it, who are the real aliens?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'd be a lot more impressed in people were shooting at NASA's robots.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm obsessed with the idea of a slow-paced FPS game now. Imagine logging in once or twice a day, picking a shot and seeing if whoever it is is still there the next day.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Once I had a board game that was a lot like this. You controlled robots on a board, and had to plan out like 5 operations (turn/step/...) each round. Chaos ensues when you have 4 people hindering (or trying to) each other.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Richard Garfield's RoboRally!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

You may want to check out Superhot. It's not nearly that slow, but the whole have runs in extreme slow motion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

With 30 ping

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago

Well NASA is essentially botting. It's not like they need to sit there and give it every input. They tell it what to do and it follows a program. I could bot with that much ping if my bit is running locally on the game's servers. Basically: NASA is full of cheaters.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

In my day, we wish we had 100 ping. Kids these days think they're hot shit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

For me these days my ping still jumps between 300 and 1k. 80ms is a good day

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Good job there aren't any bunnyhopping Martians to shoot with it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

As far as we know so far..

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Voyager has entered the chat

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

This’ll be perfect when it’s about 19 hours after the original post.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I understand that Voyager is nearly one light day away, but I can't comprehend it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

It seeks the Creator.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You made up a bullshit punchline just to use this image didn't you

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Haven't we all?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

If my match was against rocks I'd have no problem with ping that high.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

New Zealand has entered the chat

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Lemmy.nz has had some serious problems with federation with World, and a few other instances, because the way federation works, or worked, is an item would be sent, the receiving server would acknowledge receipt, and the next thing would be sent.

We ended up four days behind at one point.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

PvP - player vs ping

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

If I get under 300ms ping it's a good day.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Don't let your ping hold you back. I bought one of the COD games a few years ago and my PC would not run it no matter what I did with the settings (I think my processor was the problem). Usually it crashed before I even got into a game but I was actually able to join 2 of them and it was like playing a PowerPoint presentation of COD. The one game I actually able to finish I was still in the middle of the pack for k/d....

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

We should put whatever latency compensation NASA uses in Vidya James.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

They don't use anything for their latency. I've looked into the space network they have, what protocols they use and what they do about the massive delays.... Just a little bit, I don't know it super well or anything, but from my understanding, the "network" they use is more about assurance than delivery speed.

The publicly available version of what they use is called delay tolerant networking, which essentially uses a mesh of nodes that may, or may not be able to communicate to other nodes at any given time. As messages are sent, they are relayed from node to node as connectivity allows until they get to a base station for final delivery. It's a bit like the mail system, but instead of large centralized sorting facilities, you only have local post offices. The message is sent from one office to another until it leapfrogs it's way to the destination. It can wait at one post office indefinitely until a path opens up to the next one.

In the case of delay tolerant networking, it basically sends it along to the next station in the mesh, and that station will confirm the delivery of the information, which is when the sender can remove the message from its buffer.

Ideally, the nodes should have some type of non-volatile memory (like nvram) to store pending deliveries, so nodes don't waste power trying to keep the information in their volatile memory (RAM).

Terrestrialy, we use DTN for tracking stuff like the movement of animals in large and unserviceable areas (where mobile networks like LTE, don't exist), such as deserts and undeveloped forests. As the trackers on the animals come within range of another tracked animal, updates occur, and when either gets near enough to a base station to upload the information, then the updates are sent out to the records systems.

Don't ask me how the logic works to figure out when to push data one way or another. I haven't gotten that deep into the protocol yet.

Anyways, for NASA, the information is sent to satellites, which relays to the rover eventually. In NASA's case, they can directly transmit, from Earth, using microwave arrays, to the satellites in orbit around Mars if we want.

I'm not sure on the specifics of how they have their version of DTN setup, so I'm only speculating at best.

They don't mitigate latency, they simply account for it, and work with that as part of the problem.

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