this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023

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The Agora

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In the spirit of the Ancient Greek Agora, we invite you to join our vibrant community - a contemporary meeting place for the exchange of ideas, inspired by the practices of old. Just as the Agora served as the heart of public life in Ancient Athens, our platform is designed to be the epicenter of meaningful discussion and thought-provoking dialogue.

Here, you are encouraged to speak your mind, share your insights, and engage in stimulating discussions. This is your opportunity to shape and influence our collective journey, just like the free citizens of Athens who gathered at the Agora to make significant decisions that impacted their society.

You're not alone in your quest for knowledge and understanding. In this community, you'll find support from like-minded individuals who, like you, are eager to explore new perspectives, challenge their preconceptions, and grow intellectually.

Remember, every voice matters and your contribution can make a difference. We believe that through open dialogue, mutual respect, and a shared commitment to discovery, we can foster a community that embodies the democratic spirit of the Agora in our modern world.

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[Discussion] Limit the voting power of the Agora (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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As a more casual user that has chosen ShitJustWorks as his new home instance, I don't feel inclined to participate daily in the internal politics of this instance. Yet (semi) daily, the Agora seems to vote on issues that will affect me directly, such as defederating from instances the thread-starters deem to be harmful, something I am fundamentally opposed to as long as the block functionailty is sufficient to filter content you really don't want to see.

I suspect that many more people on this instance feel the same way, not wanting to participate daily in internal politics that is, or aren't even aware of the voting power the Agora holds. After all, the fediverse explorer currently shows over 6000 users belonging to this instance, with over 2000 active monthly. Yet the most commented-on voting thread in here has merely 200 votes, so only 10% of users will change the rules for all users in this instance.

I fear a 'tyranny of the active few', to put it in hyperbolic terms, that has the potential to drive away the majority of people.

But I also recognize the usefulness of the Agora and as such, I would like to suggest some voting rules:

At any point in time, there will be just one voting thread open on the Agora where people get to decide on issues that will affect how the instance is run in the future, pinned at the very top.
In this thread, up to X number of top-level comments will represent the actual issues to vote on. I suggest 10 as the maximum number of different votes in such a voting thread.
Voting will run for a full month, to allow maximum participation.
Over the month, people can create discussion threads for issues and preliminary voting threads to include those issues in the main voting thread. The X most popular issues will be voted on in the next month's main voting thread.

By limiting the number of issues to vote on, bringing them together in one thread and giving ample time for users to participate in the voting, it will be easier for casual users to keep track on what is being voted on and foster a voting culture that is backed by the majoriry of this instance's users.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Now that we have a mod team in place for The Agora, this is our next priority. We're working on some preliminary guidelines based on previous discussions/votes that we'll be discussing soon.

For now, just know that we share your concerns. We want everyone to feel represented here, not just a vocal minority.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That is good to know. In the long term, something like a concise page with only the relevant votes, with links to the respective discussions, as well as instance-wide announcements would be great.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imo, votes should be rare. So maybe do what legislatures often do and require a vote to get an issue on the docket, then a discussion period, then a final vote. Perhaps schedule them as well so users know when they should check in.

I know everyone is excited, I just don't have time for all this nonsense and I'd prefer to be able to ignore it most of the time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Nice

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

At any point in time, there will be just one voting thread open on the Agora where people get to decide on issues that will affect how the instance is run in the future, pinned at the very top.

already done, "Changes to the Agora" post. Well pinning isn't but obviously these threads will get upvoted enough to get to the top of practically any sorting. I do agree that it would be better to pin these.

I suspect that many more people on this instance feel the same way, not wanting to participate daily in internal politics that is, or aren’t even aware of the voting power the Agora holds

I argue that it is very simple, if one is aware that the Agora exists. Read the rules, vote in the one-week period. Feel free to participate in discussions.

I fear a ‘tyranny of the active few’, to put it in hyperbolic terms, that has the potential to drive away the majority of people.

Again, it is easy in my eyes.

Yet (semi) daily, the Agora seems to vote on issues that will affect me directly [...]

This seems to be the problem here. According to the changes post, there is one [Vote] post, Friday-Friday.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I agree with the direction you’re suggesting. I think it may also be helpful to identify a few key issues that would require more than a simple majority vote to overturn.

In particular, we’ve already gotten multiple posts on defederating from various instances, and on clearing our defederation list. My suggestion is that something like once per month we hold a vote on defederation issues. A 2/3 majority vote to defederate/refederate must be achieved to pass.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Thanks for posting this. You've summed my concerns well. I've been active on agora (though mostly I have been posting in the logo topic) - but I've been doing it out a sense of needing the balance out the more motivated 'HOA' type users, who seems to be brigading around to an extent.

I really like all of your ideas but especially the voting needs to be done by comment upvotes or polls, instead of a chain of 'ayes' and 'nays' - and the votes needs to have clear rules about how long they run.

I get the sense that these things may be set after agora mods are in place. Thats just my assumption.

I also really think the agora community SHOULD NOT be able to target specific communities for defederation. Instead we should articulate rules that federated communties must adhere to, and auto defederate from communinities that are shown to break them. People aren't going to want to wait a month to be defederated from a gore instance or something like that.

The process is way too witch hunty as it is. It got very toxic very fast.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

These are good ideas and I share the concern. The dynamic is similar to city government, where an active minority of usually wealthy retired homeowners has outsized power because they have more leisure time. It's undemocratic.

Another idea to ensure that decisions are not made by an unrepresentative minority is a minimal voting threshold. For example: Only threads with a minimum of x votes will be considered. (Where x might be a percentage of total users of the instance, so that it changes over time.) It would be silly to make important decisions based on a thread with just a handful of votes.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

I agree. I don't want a small number of highly motivated individuals with grudges, vendettas, and ideological priors having that much power. Ban TheDonald type stuff, bots, etc. but otherwise be very careful

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Commented on something like this the other day. Official votes should be limited to its own community with only active votes. The slate of votes would run at standard times (i.e. Sunday to Sunday). The agora could be used for discussion and meeting a threshold for a topic to clear to be put on the voting slate.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Call me a pessimist, but I see this only going the way of a hive mind against whatever becomes unpopular at the moment. The good news is I already have another account elsewhere.