this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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Correct me if I'm wrong. I read ActivityPub standards and dug a little into lemmy sources to understand how federation works. And I'm a bit disappointed. Every server just has a cache and the ability to fetch something from another known server. So if you start your own instance, there is no profit for the whole network until you have a significant piece of auditory (e.g. private instances or servers with no users). Are there any "balancers" to utilize these empty instances? Should we promote (or create in the first place) a way how to passively help lemmy with such fast growth?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just spun up my own instance as well and it does feel a bit like I'm just pulling from the biggest instances and feeding my own without really being able to give much back.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Since Lemmy instance are not backed by commercial interest, but rather by nice volunteers and donors that have money and time to spare, they will be heavily affected by economic downturns (we still can see commercial interests still affect users negatively tho with reddit). Here are my thoughts on the matter:

  • as far as I understand the owner of the domain: https://lemmy.world even has to pay for this fancy domain name in the DNS system ... every month subscription service style
    • (and tbh I hate the Domain name system) why should I fund it with my own money?
    • if you hosted with an onion site over tor that expenditure would not exist, but how would users discover your site then? Let me know if you know something about this
  • in times of deflation (meaning money becomes worth more, spending some money on a self hosted lemmy instance becomes nonsensical)
  • tbh if I hosted a lemmy instance and the users of my instance posted high quality content in quantity I would use it to train my own LLM, that would at least create some economic incentive for me to host such a page ... but managing spam and bots will be HARD

That is why you should always back up your comments on your personal device, would be nice if lemmy had an automated way of doing this (I should look into this more)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've suggested a routing protocol to the lemmy devs - to use federated instances to route all the messages to other federated instances. The idea was received with some interest, but it seems that people believe that there's still a ton of performance that can be squeezed out from the current architecture through optimisations.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I have my own Lemmy instance running on my home server, but I'm here. "But Bizzle," you may be asking yourself, "why go through all the trouble of configuring your own instance just to wind up on Lemmy.World anyway?"

I'm glad you asked! And the answer is that federation only fetches parent comments. I'm glad Lemmy exists, and I'm going to keep using it, but we need federated sibling comments for this to actually be good, in my opinion.

EDIT: I actually couldn't have been more wrong.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Did you mean that child comments are not federated?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like you would prefer a peer2peer approach instead of federation? A few years ago, I wrote up why I don’t belief in p2p. In short: It’s too costly and too complex.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think a amall hit of p2p can be useful. Maybe as an addition layer. I worked a lot with tendermint nodes (cryptocurrency) and i saw pretty effective solutions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I worked a lot with tendermint nodes (cryptocurrency)

If you worked with crypto, I think you would understand that ALL crypto is federated, not P2P. You need full nodes to communicate with in order to validate transactions. This is fundamentally federation, anyone can spin up their own full node and participate however they want.

Same is happening here with ActivityPub instead of block chain transactions.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

you mean do something like blockchain ?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (27 children)

It's a bit worse than that actually. I'm now seeing several communities with exactly the same name that originate on different servers - so clearly Lemmy doesn't have a rule about duplication once you cross a server boundary. That's going to get unwieldy quite fast particularly if, I dunno, "Aww" gets popular on two separate servers at the same time - I guess I'll have to subscribe to both...

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