Good. If Biden survives that horrid episode, against my expectations, we will all be the better for it. For now, I’ll allow myself to hope.
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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You made some valid points, so I upvoted you because of what you wrote even though I an highly skeptical of this polling data. My personal impression is that while polling may be at best inaccurate, the total summation of the available evidence suggests the situation for the Biden campaign is beyond dire.
It appears, from the outside, to be significantly worse than 2016 at this point. Especially given some of the answers he gave in his interview yesterday. When the candidate himself has made it clear that he is okay with losing, I think that is pretty much a wrap. You aren't motivating anybody. If you don't give a fuck about the potential dystopian future of this country, then why would that reality even register for the average normie voter?
When one side is a death cult with religious fervor toward their deified god king, and the other side has a leader who thinks they are trying to win the equivalent of a pickup basketball game you tell me what you think the most likely outcome is going to be. Fuck the data. On a human level, things are looking bleak as fuck, and no polling is going to change that.
I think the debate was a horrifying disaster. I think the Democrats should be having a hard conversation about what they want to do, and this mindlessly stubborn "fuck you it's Biden" attitude is just as harmful as is the constant hand-wringing about how we can't possibly go forward with it being Biden.
Surely, the right move is for Biden to go up on stage and say, look, I want the best for the Democrats. I'm fine with an open convention. No one in the Democratic party is the enemy. Trump is the enemy. Let's have an open convention, and figure out what we want to do, if everyone can commit to getting the fuck behind it and winning the election once that is done. I hope it's me, but if it's not I'll support the nominee, but let's figure it the fuck out without getting in slap fights with each other while there's a crocodile approaching the children.
Just as surely as that, doing the whole ABC interview was just compounding mistake upon mistake. The first rule of getting bullied is, you don't stand up in front of the class afterwards and make a big speech about how you're not actually a big poopie head, and show everybody your head so they can see there's no poop on it, and it was totally unfair for everyone to say those mean things about you because they're not true.
The part that pisses me off, and the reason I wanted to post this, is the absolutely relentless drumbeat of shitting on Biden and panicking that about a third of the Democratic party is for some reason leaning way the fuck into now. It's just stupid. They talked you into the idea that all the American voters suddenly forgot that Trump might execute them, because of the debate. Surprisingly enough, they didn't. The New York Times sure did. They ran 8 out of 8 of their front page stories yesterday about how Biden is bad. Someone needs to show them the data before they keep milking this thing and make it come true.
Guys: Trump is gonna fuckin execute you. Wake the fuck up. If you think Biden's too old, let's have a fuckin solution, because Trump might be going to execute me too, or at least put me in prison, and I'm really fuckin sick of you pretending the polls show this objective disaster for Biden (when they don't), and creating the exact "he's gonna lose the election" situation that you claim is your greatest fear, the whole time while you're doing everything in your power to create it.
Did you catch the Friday interview with Biden?
Reaction? Did you think it helped or hurt?
You think the people panicking about Biden's declining acuity and pushing for a swap of candidates have forgotten about Trump?
I think the people urging we ignore his declining performance in service of keeping him on the top of the ticket are doing the most harm to the democratic campaign given the threat posed by trump. Democrats can't afford a nominee that might fall asleep in the middle of cross-examination. If the one thing dems need is someone who can argue the case against Trump, the bare minimum qualification is the ability to stay on message, and Biden simply doesn't have it anymore. He can barely finish a complete thought anymore.
Didn't Hillary also lead in swing state polls?
I can’t speak to polls, just myself, but I can’t vote for Biden – he seems borderline too old for the job now, it’d be painful to see an accelerated decline over the next four years.
Other people might be too old for that job at an earlier age, some at a later age; it’s a personal thing on how age effects a person and their abilities to do certain things. For him it’s getting past time.
And Trump is horrible for the reasons you list and more. Plus, if he gets in office removing him after is a worry.
I’ve always voted Democrat. I was for Bernie in 2016 and also wrote him in as a protest in 2020 (I was mad they made everyone bow-out at once and defer to Biden, and I recall thinking he was too old even then). Bernie is too old now even for throwing away my vote on another protest (he’s actually older than Biden, but again age vs. capabilities is a personal thing and even though he was looking good back in 2020, it feels wrong to vote for a guy in his 80s for a term no matter how good they seem.) I know that doesn’t matter because a write-in never wins, but I will always vote, and always vote for somebody I’d want for the job. I just can’t bring myself to vote ‘against’ somebody or feel I need to use my vote on one of the main people who actually have a chance to win. It’s just how I’m wired, and I don’t know how rare my broken thinking is, but I suspect it’s more common than most would guess.
So this time around, I don’t know. I hope someone else is there to vote for on top of Dem ticket instead of Biden, that’d probably be my pick no matter who it is. I might end up writing in Whitmer as a protest if not.
Just keep in mind that your protest vote effectively gives Trump a vote. His base might be stupid, but they do vote.
You can make that same argument about supporting a candidate like Biden, who has demonstrated an inability to win in this election cycle.
Whoooooooosh
Its funny cus' your the one being wooshed here.
If you think this is even apples to oranges, you are part of the “left’s” problem. I don’t see much point in interacting with someone who essentially just tried to both-sides this.
Or alternatively by insisting on running a candidate that is polling in the low 30's, its you, in your "Blue Maga" thinking, thats the problem.
Its not this false dilemma and a departure from a fact based reality that you've convinced yourself the situation to be. We can pursue other candidates; it doesn't hurt the party to do so, it helps them, and we can still win this: just not with Joe Biden.
Your denial-ism around the reality of the environment around Joe Biden, has been and continues to be the singularly most destructive thing to the Democrats chances electorally. You and your thinking aren't just a part of the problem: they're the entire problem.
You should leave all leftist and democratic spaces and join the other cult members in the Donald camp, because thats about where you are at.
Ok then buddy. You know nothing of my politics, which is expected as we don’t know each other.
This is all unprecedented, no? The incumbent was always the presumptive nominee. This incumbent is about as healthy as a mallard with a cold. That instills confidence (/s). I really don’t like Joe Biden. If I’m being honest, I don’t care for any of them. But we work with what we got. And until there’s is a viable alternative, this is who we got. I don’t like it. I don’t support it. But I have to tolerate it, if it means keeping that traitorous piece of shit away from Capitol Hill.
Of everyone, I’d like to AOC give it a go. But she would lose, because we can’t have nice things.
This is all unprecedented, no? The incumbent was always the presumptive nominee. This incumbent is about as healthy as a mallard with a cold. That instills confidence (/s). I really don’t like Joe Biden. If I’m being honest, I don’t care for any of them. But we work with what we got.
This is the false premise. You are just fucking wrong on this point along with the rest of Blue Maga. Biden can and will be made to step down. A viable alternative doesn't enter the conversation until Biden is off the stage and if you keep fucking insisting we don't have other options, you are basically insisting we get Trump.
This narrative thats been being forced, that you are forcing right now, is why we're in this fucked position. Because of an uncritical, naive, stupendously stupid support for a candidate who can-not win. You plugging your nose doesn't change the fact that Biden can't win. Promoting him as if he's the only option when he never has been the only option is fundamental to why democrats are losing this election as bad a the y currently are.
You need to come to grips with the fact that Biden can't win this, and that are only option is to pressure him out and seek an alternative at the convention. Pretending we can just "suck it up" and vote Biden is precisely fucking why we are losing right now. Come to grips with a fact base reality ffs.
Gotta be honest, I’ve had a few shots and didn’t read whatever the fuck it was you wrote. Sorry. But yup I’m wrong to not want Donald Trump in the Oval Office. You can reply, but not going to read it. I’m over it. Have a great day, sir/ma’am
Your only wrong to present Biden as a forgone conclusion.
Also, yes, the debate was a pure horrifying shit show. So is getting convicted of 34 felonies, or electing the guy who wants to kill protestors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
you are welcome
If you have a credible plan for how to achieve a third result, let's fuckin have it.
I am completely serious. I want to replace Biden with Jon Stewart, because that is the most confidence inducing thing I can come up with and seems at least as likely as all kinds of crazy unrealistic shit I am hearing and at least carries the advantage that if it did happen, I feel like I could relax quite a bit about what the election is going to result in. But if you have something more realistic, which wouldn't be hard, let's have it.
I really think it could make sense to pass the torch to Kamala. It's not perfect, but she can talk in complete sentences. Her debate performances were bad, but I remember she completely ragdolled Biden in the first '20 primary debate. She doesn't have a lot to her that's good, but she also doesn't have a lot of baggage. So, she's kind of a nothingburger, which could be good depending on your angle. She's still a really conservative left choice who should be able to appeal to the apparently very large auth center segment of the party and to undecided voters. It also makes sense because she's Biden's VP. It would be a very easy sell to say "I've reviewed everything with friends, family, and peers, and we've decided that it's the right thing for both me and the country to step back and concede leadership to the Vice President." Then, they just have to pick a VP, which is much more of a triviality.
Do I wish the democrats had used even like two seconds of foresight and spent the last four years prepping Kamala for this moment? Yes, of course, but we've got to work with what we've got, and as it was, Biden went up on stage with a shotgun, said "heads up, chucklefuck", and blew his own leg off in front of the whole country. I firmly believe Kamala can do better than that.
If you have a credible plan for how to achieve a third result, let’s fuckin have it.
here is the fucking plan: the democratic party leadership and biden administration will stop trying to perpetrate fraud on american voters by intentionally hiding health state of current president (because as of right now it is pretty clear that is what they are doing), will stop acting like a mafia, start acting like a DEMOCRATIC party and organize primaries. how about that?
Okay, so significantly less likely than Jon Stewart. Got it. Well, if that’s all you’ve got on offer, I plan to shrug my shoulders and vote for the guy who doesn’t want to kill or deport me, and I would recommend that others do and advocate the same.
Biden winning this campaign against Trump in bis current condition is looking about as likely as Biden choosing to step down and Stewert stepping into electoral politics
yeah, lets vote for demented grandpa who doesn't remember his own name, because... checks notes... democracy is so unlikely people should just give up 😆
If our options are third party or we lose democracy then we've already lost democracy and we're just now figuring it out.
Agreed. It's the horrifying realization I've been coming to terms with these last 4 years.
Therrrrre it is
I kinda had a feeling that was where this was going.
Yes. He’s not demented, but even if he was, yes. Vote for Biden, or Kamala Harris, or fuckin Daffy Duck if that’s who’s on the ballot on the other side of Trump.
Reforming the Democrats so they are not so shit also sounds like a great idea, just unlikely to me to happen in the next few months. But in the meantime, yes. If a bucket of ranch dressing was running as the nominee in November, I would plan to vote for the bucket, because it doesn’t plan to do any mass deportations or have the military seize the voting machines to prevent any improvement of the system in the future that you just claimed is your hope to achieve with all of this.
ITs a false dillema dude.
Kamala, Michelle Obama, as you said, Jon Stewart.
The bench is deep with better options and we haven't had a convention.