this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
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Body positivity is such a strange concept to me. There's efforts to reclaim words while simultaneously calling them bad if used as an insult. Ideally, people wouldn't be offended by someone describing their body with common descriptors, but socially there is so much value attributed to certain body types that it's almost impossible to avoid having an emotional response of some kind to various descriptors.

For example, It's not bad to be fat, but calling someone "fat" is almost universally considered a bad thing. The same definitely seems to go for the idea of being "short."

I'm asking this question because I can't put my finger on why but something seems to be different about the use of the term "short" from the use of the term "fat." I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality. On the other hand, height is a single-dimensional number. You either are above a certain threshold, or you aren't.

I recently learned that May 6th to May 10th is "short king week" because it's 5'6" to 5'10" which then prompted me to search for the origins of "short king" and apparently the person most-credited with popularizing the term is Jaboukie Young-White who claims the term was meant to include all men under 6 feet tall. The average adult male height is 5'9" leaving men considered roughly average to be called "short" which is still considered an insult by many.

I dunno. As a term that was intended to champion body positivity compared with how the term is actually used, what do you think of "short king?"

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I'm 5'6" and find the term childish and insulting. It's not the short part, it's the king part. I am not a king, I'm a regular guy working a regular job.

"Body positivity" is garbage. People should be honest and support healthy lifestyles. Twisting reality to make someone comfortable is detrimental to their physical and mental health.

I don't understand the reasoning but, across the board, it seems today's culture is very quick to accept literal delusions in place of reality for the sake of feelings and "mental well being".

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

I think that you have internalized a version of body positivity that lies on the most extreme end of what is meant by that phrase. Body positivity - be comfortable with who you are and do not put down on others due to their body.

The odds are that I am significantly fatter than you. The odds also favor that I am significantly stronger than you, even if you lift weights. I can also probably walk all day much farther than you can.

Would it be healthier if I lose body fat? Absolutely. Have I tried for 20 years to do that? Yes. I am not ignorant regarding nutrition. I am not lazy. I am not overall lacking willpower. I am fat but otherwise healthy.

Body positively means that my doctor treats my body fat as what it is - one aspect of my overall health. He does not assume that every problem I have is because I am fat, even though changing that would improve some aspects of my health.

Body positively also means that I am not going to hide when I go to the beach. I am going to go shirtless and enjoy myself. If you do not find me sexually attractive, that is fine. If you are going to shame or mock me for my body fat, then you are an asshole. If I catch wind of you mocking me, I will quietly estimate how many times your bodyweight I will deadlift on Monday. If you choose to mock the scars that cover parts of my body from extreme, life-saving surgery, I may feel the need to firmly educate you on exactly what sort of asshole you are.

Body positively often conjures the image of a morbidly obese girl on OnlyFans who lets people pay to watch her binge and intentionally get fatter while she says being purposefully inactive is just as healthy as hitting the gym. The real versions of that person are extremely rare, but their radicalism, vociferous nature, and platform make their voices much louder in comparison. Their argument is also easy to find flaw with and mock, so they get used as if they are a typical example of body positivity.

You are right in that the woman I describe above needs help and is not behaving in a safe or healthy way. I also understand why you might think that is the norm. She is not, though, and I would encourage you to look deeper at the meaning of the "movement."


The "you" above is generic and based on broad assumptions. You, the reader, might be stronger than me and have way more endurance than me. You also might be fatter than I am. The odds are very good that you are also not an asshole. My point was to call out variances from the norm as convenient examples, of which I have plenty in both directions.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (11 children)

I agree that we should strive for people to be healthy. But there's a lot of evidence to suggest that shame not only is ineffective but can actually have the opposite effect.

Besides, I think you're being pretty reductive. Health includes both physical and mental, we should take steps to improve both of these. And I get the sense that you specifically take issue with body positivity specifically around fat people, as I assume you don't think being short or tall is unhealthy. In which case, you're ignoring the economics of it (at least in America, there are a ton of government subsidies for corn, incentivizing businesses to load up our food with corn syrup).

The issue is complex and so would any solutions. At least in America, we need to deincentivize the production of unhealthy food, better access to healthcare, and cultural shifts as well. And I'm sure there's a whole lot I'm missing.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Do you think short people are living an unhealthy lifestyle?

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I recall a tweet from a ways back-

sometimes you have to be a bit mentally ill to get mentally well so if thinking naruto would be proud of you for brushing your teeth is what gets you to brush your teeth well grab that toothbrush dattebayo

If calling yourself a short king lets you kick your insecurities ass well then here's your crown my dude 👑

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago

I think that “championing body positivity” for any class of adult humans is undignified. I think that doing a special extra thing for people in order to reverse the polarity of a judgment about that aspect of them is cruelly mocking them for that aspect of them.

Perhaps there’s something about that short guy that’s actually awesome, and doesn’t require childish lies and role-playing to communicate.

If someone called me “small dick king” I would hate them forever, despite whatever positive intentions they might have had when they said it. Do not make my weakness the key point of my persona, even if you include that awkward attempt at “positivifying” it. Just call me “Intensely Human, master wordsmith” or something that’s actually positive. Don’t treat me like I’m a five year old, using keywords to remap my negative qualities into positive ones.

The whole idea of using a term, that’s special to short men, to “champion” (verbing nouns is horrible) body positivity in short men, makes me feel nauseous.

If we want to respect short men, let’s do so in action, not in word choice.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I'm a man, I'm 5'5" and I'm far beyond caring about my height. It bothered me in high school but I found out shortly after it really doesn't matter that much if you carry yourself confidently.

That said, I've seen a number of other cis men find confidence in themselves by using short king self referentially and hearing people they want to date celebrate "short kings", so it seems to be a useful term. I've also seen a number of trans men find it to be a confidence boosting term, combating the dysmorphia of their perceived height deficiency.

I'll revel in such things with my friends for laughs, but, ultimately, it doesn't do much for me, but I like seeing what it's done for others.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

I'm on the tall side of average (tall to some, average to others, short to few), and to me it's always sounded like it's mocking short guys, and if I were short I don't think I'd want to be called that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's silly. And 5'10" isn't short for a guy, and I say that as a tall lady. I don't think most guys like feeling short, that's problematic in itself but yeah, as you say, I would feel "short king" a backhanded compliment.

In general I think worrying about things people didn't choose and can't change is the worst. I feel slightly different about worrying about weight, but that's my own baggage.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

I'm a 5'7” guy and I absolutely support this kind of monarchism. God save the king.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As someone who is a few inches below average height where I live, I personally wouldn't like being called a "short king". Also, fuck those over 6 foot men for driving up the average height and unintentionally making me have an irrational annoyance because I'm short.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

Sorry 😔

It's not all roses up here either. I'm 6'4". Not NBA competitive in height, but well above the average. Finding clothes, shoes etc is a royal pita. Some amusement park rides I can't fit in. Having to duck a lot and having to be generally more aware of the height of doorways and hanging light fixtures. Also having people in stores asking me to grab stuff from upper shelving gets old too.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I dont have a problem with the phrase but I don't think ive ever heard it unironically or outisde of joking situatuons. Which is right about where the state of body positivity for men ends up.

Pro tip. Never tell people that even if someone is an asshole calling them small dicked is body shaming, unless you want all those people to instantly assume you're telling on yourself and then body shame you for that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Personally I do not let internet trends affect my behavior out in the real world. Why is that? Because if I use the term "short king" anywhere in the real world, 99% of people won't know what I'm talking about. Until you hear a real person say it (that means not on lemmy, not on twitter, not on dating apps, etc. or people you meet through these platforms) you can assume that there is no real impact to be had there. I think we give way too much credit to the internet for affecting real life trends. Most people don't care about these cute terminologies people come up with, and neither should you. The term was made to get someone attention, not to make short people feel better.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

if you highlight a feature as "now its positive", what you're actually saying "normally it's negative"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

5"10 isn't short anyway. I think it's average? "Short king" is trolling 100% of the time. I won't call it gaslighting (a term I do apply to "big dick energy") because it doesn't seek that level of psychological invasiveness. But it's not intended as a compliment. It's trolling. Don't feed the trolls.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

as a 5'7 person, I can't control my height. Therefore, it isn't something that I should feel bad about. it's the same way I feel about the color of my skin or any other physical or mental things I have going on that are 100% out of my control. it's a difficult way to address my shortcomings (pun intended), but once you start just accepting these are things that cant be control, you start feeling better about yourself. I've cut out a lot of people in my life that made me feel bad about uncontrollable things, and it's made me a much better person. I'm still on that journey to improve every day, too; it'll never stop

I think the trap many people fall into is getting caught up and comparing themselves to other people. I can't imagine if I woke up every day and compared myself to some of the wealthiest people in the world... I'd get depressed so fast!

as for the term short king, that's absolutely hilarious to me, I approve of its use lol.

I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality.

well, there's a clear definition as to what is considered to be overweight, and if someone fits that category, it's up to them to decide how they take it. it's a lifestyle choice for that person, in my opinion, and I know plenty of people that are happy with their larger size and others that would like to bring their weight down. but comparison will always make someone feel bad about themselves if they dont take the comparison as constructive criticism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I wouldn't want to be called by any term partly comprised of 'king'. Just call me short.

Also I keep wanting to read it as shortening and start baking.

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