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-1
Democrats need to pull themselves together and remember: Biden is still better than Trump (www.usatoday.com)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
111 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

While rebutting another post here on Lemmy, I ran into this. This says exactly what I want to say.

I am not a friend of Biden's Administration. I think they drug their feet over a variety of things ranging from holding Trump and his goons accountable for January 6th through rulemaking on issues like OTC Birth Control and abortion rights, and yes, I think he's too quick to please big business. But then I remember what the alternative is, and ... well, disappointed in Biden or not, I'm voting for him. Because my wife is a Black bisexual goth woman, four strikes under Team Pepe's tent. And I have my own strikes for marrying her as a White dude, and respecting her right to not have kids since she doesn't want them is another strike against me. And I care about my Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, and Minority friends, and will never willingly subject them to Team Pepe.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Democrats should get over themselves and push through ranked choice voting in each state they control. Republicans gaining control of the nation is a existential threat, and we should be using every tool to keep them out. This means getting rid of FPTP voting and the spoiler effect inherent in it.

OP, you seem very concerned with how people vote. Have you worked to start an electoral reform campaign in your state? you can entirely solve the spoiler effect that you're concerned with! What are you waiting for?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (11 children)

I’ll be one of the first to admit, I don’t like Biden. But, if you need to be convinced that he’s better than Trump, you’re an absolute buffoon!! Trump is worse than the shit you stepped on, on your walk. Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the American presidency. He’s the closest we’ll get to Adolf Hitler and he relishes in that. He thinks it makes him “a bad boy” or someone moving against the curve…and he’s right, he’s moving against the curve. He’s moving against it in 4 straight lines that will bend consecutively in 90° angles to the right. My point is, TRUMP IS NAZI SCUM WHO’S WORSE THAN THE SHIT ON YOUR HEEL

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This is more of a political meme, Biden and friends have no other talking point than"not trump" well so is any random person on the street. Dumbass reason to vote for Biden. Need another Bernie Sanders, progressive and not gonna fund random wars lobbied by MIC

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Problem is, we have to unite behind somebody, because everyone who votes red isn't going to vote anyone but Trump.

If we don't decide to unite behind one person, we lose to an actual fascist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Funny how the person we always end up having to unite behind is someone who would have been a republican 20 years ago, and not someone who'll actually try to make change

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's funny how when the threat of fascism looms, you don't tend to have a full array of different choices laid out in a neat menu of candidates to thwart it.

It's almost as if the conditions that create fascism necessarily require and go on to arrange a lukewarm, unpopular candidate as the only other option so rubes can justify not voting when the actual fascist needs them to abstain.

I'm so tired of the people who think they're better than the system and don't fully grasp that we're fighting just to keep some modicum of a democracy.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A rabid racoon would make a better president than Cheeto Benito..

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

On nearly every single issue, not only is he "better than Trump," he's actually good. On the environment? Actual progress in the form of a massive infrastructure bill that invests in green energy sources and tamping down on pollution. On education? He's made student loan forgiveness a central tenet of his policy agenda. On the economy? He's gotten inflation under control and the economy is actually doing great now.

The elephant in the room is Israel and Palestine, of course, but I wish people would pause and think before knee-jerk reacting to... not even his policies there, just headlines about his policies.

The fact of the matter is that the Middle East is a fucking mess and Israel is currently run by a government hell-bent on making it ten times worse, but Israel actually falling and the conflict overtaking the entire region would be a global catastrophe. Biden is doing what he can to pressure Netanyahu over the insane and genocidal treatment of Palestinians while not giving Iran and others the sense that they have free rein to invade. (And for FUCK'S sake, can we stop pretending Iran is suddenly the good guys? They're supplying arms to Russia.)

This is a nuanced, complex, and fragile situation, and like it or not, Biden is exactly the right kind of person for the presidency at a time like this. Not only that, Trump would make it ten thousand times worse on purpose, because it would please Putin to see Russia's influence in the Middle East overtake that of the United States.

There is literally only one sane choice on the ballot this year.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

I just like to think that we're currently playing the Weimar Germany game. Let Trump win and you'll have given the Republicans decades of power if not more. They've been planning for years to control the government through the supreme court, you think this is the worst they can do?

For those wanting acceleration towards collapse, that's not guaranteed, and will cause many deaths in the process if it does, and there probably still won't be any guarantee or high likelihood of some sorta takeover by the proletariat or what have you. Seeing as how most of the militant groups in the US are likely to be right wing, all you'll have is a right wing take over after a collapse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

There is literally only one sane choice on the ballot this year.

Which is the real problem, has been a problem since before I could vote, and is a problem that cannot be fixed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I actually think it can be fixed, but doing so is hard work. It requires:

  • Full and unreserved repudiation of Trumpism/fascism.
  • Codifying the norms and standards he violated (and continues to violate) into law.
  • Creating federal legislation that clarifies exactly what "emoluments" are to prevent the office of the presidency from ever being used for self-enrichment again.
  • Going after every single Russia-compromised politician. Make politicians scared to get in bed with Vladimir Putin.
  • Figuring out a way to cut off the sewage pipeline leading from Russian troll factories to our TV and computer screens.
  • Implement ranked-choice voting at all levels.
[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

If we're shooting for the stars, for election reform, I think we might need proportional representation. First-past-the-post is only one problem in our first-past-the-post, winner-take-all voting system.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Implement ranked-choice voting at all levels

Ranked is better than our current system, but STAR and approval would be even better.

If we are doing election reform, we should go for the best.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

And the Democratic Party needs to pull its head out of its ass and embrace its base, rather than smugly scheme in ways that are ruining lives.

I have no problem with Biden’s job as president. In fact, I got into a big argument with someone a few weeks ago because they keep parroting anti-Biden propaganda from astroturfed pro-Palestine social media groups.
Biden has been doing a great job for the most part, on a number of fronts.

But I’m sort of bittersweet on that, because the harder I look, the more I see the illusion of choice, and an intentional effort to barely keep up with the will of the people.

2016, Bernie vs Clinton. He had the votes, but the party pulled some superdelegate shenanigans to give it to Clinton. And with the same confidence of someone who had just been handed a layup in the primary, she managed to smugly fumble the presidency by a tiny margin.
Post 2020 - Democrats had a majority, and instead of doing things the populous wanted, they wrung their hands about two candidates the Democratic Party had helped elect - Sinema and Manchin - and whether or not they were going to block bills.
The other day I did a deep dive into Elissa Slotkin - a candidate so unlikeable she had to move to a much more certain democratic district when districts were redrawn. When the senate seat came up, the Democratic Party cut deals with more liberal candidates who are vastly more likable, to get them to not run in the primary. So now Michigan is going to wind up with an unwanted centrist that used to be an ‘analyst’ for the CIA during the Iraq war. She’s going to pretend to be a democrat while being the same sort of heel the Sinema or Manchin was.

That’s just the people. In their post 2020-majority they could have done so much legislatively that they didn’t even bother considering - like campaign finance reform or expanding the courts, or even changing the rules around judicial nominees to prevent future shenanigans, but that would impact their bottom line or their ability to inspire panic at election-time. They could have strengthened the ACA, but that hurts some of the corporations that donate to them. Or do things to help people so that their rights wouldn’t be at risk - like codifying Roe, instead of allowing it to continue to be a wedge issue that destroys lives, but gets people to vote.

The Democratic (and Republican) Party is playing us all.
I’m not disaffected with Biden. I’m disaffected with a political party that nakedly fucks around to preserve the status quo, rather than embracing their base and winning with an encouraged and engaged populous. They lack the mandate to lead because they only desire to govern. (In contrast to the Republicans which lack the mandate to lead, are unable to govern, and only desire power and to abuse the government for personal gain.)

So go ahead, give me the downvotes.
This wouldn’t be an issue if we had ranked choice and a coalition government instead of this ‘winner take all’ nonsense that just incentivizes entrenchment rather than inspiration. But, you know, that doesn’t help the businesses that are political parties, so they ain’t gonna vote on it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You make valid points and we ultimately agree that we should change our voting system. But that happens from the ground up, voting for a third party in the presidential election does nothing.

What are they going to do? "Oh no, people are unhappy with the two parties...well we better dilute our power and give them ranked voting."

Never going to happen. But you can work locally to get the changes and encourage that elsewhere. Voting third party is worse than slacktavism, as it's both pointless and counter productive.

Don't try to play the game you want to be playing, play the one you're currently playing.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Circling back - I initially did not respond because I thought that my response would be caustic and catty.

It seemed that the first two paragraphs you wrote were in response to me, but the rest were just the same canned responses that get shared with everyone who throws out a ‘voting is pointless’ message. And that’s not really my stance, or my comment. It kind of upset me, so I felt that I couldn’t have responded politely at the time.
It is a reasonable conclusion to draw from my statements, but I don’t believe people should refrain from voting. I just believe political parties should deliver on their promises, and if they don’t deliver, then they should stop making those promises, or make way for parties that do.

What are they going to do? "Oh no, people are unhappy with the two parties...well we better dilute our power and give them ranked voting."

Yes.
It’s not ‘the norm’ as far as beliefs go, but I do kind of think that should be exactly what they do. They are here to lead and govern. That is what public service is. It is service to the public.
If they behave in protectionist ways for the sake of their party’s over the public interest, then they lack the mandate to represent the public.
Leadership is sometimes sacrificing the power of your party for the good of the people. But that’s also irrelevant as an argument. If democrats represent the ideals they claim to represent, then next time they have a trifecta, they should move towards expanding democracy at a federal level, rather than leaving it to states. Leaving it at the state level guarantees the sort of gridlock that holds back local organizing - only certain kinds of ballot initiatives are even seriously considered at a state level because it’ll harm that state’s power on the national stage. In terms of ideology, more U.S. citizens align with democrats than republicans (but huge numbers of left leaning folks don’t vote due to lack of representation). Their political aims would see more progress with a better represented (and presumably more engaged) populous in a coalition government where their ideas can enjoy broader support.
But they don’t run on ideas or by providing better governance. They’re a business that relies on laws and marketing campaigns to succeed in a given ‘business cycle.’

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Yes.

You missed the point: It is a rhetorical question. Of course they aren't going to do that. It's not how it works. These people got into power that way, and there is no way in a representative democracy that you are going to get enough of the reps who gained the power a certain way to give up that way. You are arguing what they should do, and I agree with you. But the problem is that focusing on that is just blind idealism. I'm pointing out the dirty reality of how politics works.

And this assault on "well washington democrats aren't idealistic do-gooders!" is just a counter productive position (unless you want Reps to win instead). They are humans who have human faults, and primarily made up of people who have sought out the power, so a lot of those faults are going to be amplified.

But that's the game we have right now. Ranked choice is great, but it ain't going to come from people wringing their hands over "Well, washington democrats with their slim majority weren't able to force through sweeping changes that some of their members don't even agree with!" It's going to come from getting your hands dirty locally.

It's super easy to be like "I don't like either party." Good for you. I've known plenty of edgy 14 year olds who have been able to "reason" themselves to this same conclusion. But nothing you propose is realistic or will solve it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

In their post 2020-majority they could have done so much legislatively that they didn’t even bother considering - like campaign finance reform or expanding the courts, or even changing the rules around judicial nominees to prevent future shenanigans, but that would impact their bottom line or their ability to inspire panic at election-time.

This conspiracy theory is so weird.

How exactly are legislative Democrats supposed to accomplish these things when their bare-bones Senate majority depends on Manchin and Sinema? I mean really, specifically, how are they supposed to get things done?

Y'all are always like "they should do more" but you won't give them the numbers to do it. In a 60/40 Senate we can make wonderful things happen, but you just won't give it to us.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

When the Democratic Party did have a 60-40 in 2009 they did not act. Where they did they self imposed compromises with the GOP or simply didn't pass legislation they ran on. For example: codifying Roe v Wade with Freedom of Choice Act went from Obama's alleged first sct in office to "not a top priority." Then they got annihilated in 2010.

We know from precedent that when Democrats are elected there is no indication they will even promote what they or the party ran on.

Recent example: John Fetterman. Ran as a progressive, immediately said he wasn't progressive once in office and now pushing for right wing immigration laws.

Republicans get what they vote for. Democrats do not. Which is why these threads are so ignorant and frustrsting to read.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They had a 60-40 majority for only a few months, and they passed a massive expansion of healthcare that has saved thousands of lives and lifted countless people out of poverty. And that's after Republicans gutted it by killing the individual mandate.

these threads are so ignorant and frustrsting to read.

At least we agree on one thing. But you're the one spreading the ignorance.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Democratic strategists, liberal pundits are making a living off doubting President Joe Biden's viability in the 2024 presidential election. Why?

Because they need it to be a horse race to get keep people's attention. They write those things because they get clicks and views and comments.

Notice how they're not writing about how our system is failing everyone by being this way. That's because they like the system this way because it keeps them on top.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you think the system is failing us now, you must have been asleep from 2017 through 2020, especially for the part where unmarked, literally secret as in unknown, police came in and abducted people protesting the murder of a Black dude, and beat the shit out of them before releasing them. The system REALLY failed us then.

I get it. You think the Democrats don't represent your issues in the Congress. I don't agree with that, as a good half of the achievements listed here benefit the little guy in one way or another, but yeah. Biden answers to the moneyed class, and that is bipartisan. But you only get 26 out of 100 people in the room to flat out come out and say "Yeah, I'm with that guy," pointing to you. In the polls, you might net another 25 people, and 49 people vote for the R in this accursed D and R duopoly we call our government. But pay attention to those numbers. You can't afford to lose a lot of people. If Jill Stein picks off 3 of your 51 people, it's 49 Trump, 48 Biden, 3 Stein, and all 51 of the anti-Trump voters suffer with Trump. Those are the rules the game is played by.

As I said to the other person arguing that it's wrong to expect people to vote for people who don't give them exactly what they want, I agree. We need better choices. But there are smart ways to go about doing this, and dumb ways to go about doing it. And allowing the authoritarian jerk in isn't just a dumb way to go about doing it. It's a dumb and cruel way. And understand if you're a White Liberal choosing to vote Third Party or stay home and not vote Joe Biden the Genocidal Monster: you are benefiting from your White Privilege. You, like me, can keep your head down and pretend to be a Loyal Member of the Race, a Good American who pays your taxes and salutes the flag. You can scrub your Social Media posts and hide behind your anonymity on places like Lemmy, and go about your life. You will not be the first put into the cages by the Trump ICE. You will not be the first rounded up and deported to a foreign land with no citizenship. You will not be the first detained by the military during protests. Many, many people will pay the price for your privilege of voting third party or staying home because you won't vote for no 'genocider'. But remember two things First, you will have brought the genocide you say you oppose onto American shores. Second, once they are done with the migrants, the transgender people, the gays, the 'sinful' women protesting their rights to get a safe abortion, and so on, there'll be nobody left to protect you when they turn their attention to you.

Again. Biden ain't no bed of roses. But one of two people will win in 2024, just like one of two people would win in 2020, and one of two people would win in 2016. I consider you all who voted Stein or Johnson in 2016 or stayed home in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be responsible for what Trump did in 2017 through 2020, and if Trump wins in 2024, I'll hold you all accountable for what happens in 2025 and beyond.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

tl;dr - The system is broken but we still have to pretend it isn't because otherwise its brokenness will allow terrible things to happen and the people who do those things will face no repercussions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

tl;dr - The system is broken but we still have to pretend it isn’t because otherwise its brokenness will allow terrible things to happen and the people who do those things will face no repercussions.

No, you can either use the broken system and try to minimize the damage done (by voting for Biden) or you can stomp your feet and refuse to use the system by not voting, or voting 3rd party, and in doing so allowing Trump to get reelected which will do great harm to you and everyone else who isn't named Trump. It's really a simple choice. Meanwhile, work to change the system. Join your local political party and support progressive candidates who also want to change the system. Hell, run for local office yourself and fight to change the system.

You have a an angry bear charging at you your family and there's no where to run. All you have is a dull knife. Do you try and fight off the bear or do you throw up your hands and scream it's not fair while the bear kills your family?

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