Kia ora and welcome to the NZ Politics community!
This is a place for respectful discussions about everything that's political and kiwi
This is an inclusive space where diverse opinions are valued, but please don't be a dick
Banner image by Tom Ackroyd, CC-BY-SA
Yes, the important thing is the (fake) hurt feelings of the government when being called out for:
Oh I know, this government is being a bunch of cunts, they only seem to care about tax cuts and everything is on the table to be gutted.
The things that are getting cut, are obviously going to be the things that resonate with their older more conservative base.
purging Te Reo from the public service
They are mandating English first in agency names, Te Reo will still be there.
committing to the Crown unilaterally reinterpreting the Treaty.
As far as it's first reading in the house, sure.
threatening the Waitangi tribunal
Threatening them with what, exactly?
slashing services both in scale and in approach (e.g. removing Treaty obligations from OTs remit), while massively increasing funding for prisons.
Labour's approach to crime has failed spectacularly, even Hipkins has admitted they got things wrong. This is also exactly what they campaigned on.
They are mandating English first in agency names, Te Reo will still be there.
Te Reo is an official language of this country. The only reason to do is racism.
As far as it’s first reading in the house, sure.
Are you saying that the government said it will kill it after the first reading?
Labour’s approach to crime has failed spectacularly,
Only if you are daft enough to believe the hyped up stories about ram raids in the run up to the election. Also of course if you are daft enough to believe the way to end crime in this country is to build more prisons and lock up even a greater percentage of the population.
Hipkins did not say they should have cut services in favour of mega prisons.
I don't care if they campaigned on their terrible policies (although the ones they didnt campaign on are worse in that regard), they're still terrible.
This kind of comment is designed specifically to garner attention. I assume the attention being generated is why TPM leadership is standing behind the comments.
I highly doubt that any of them actually think the government is trying to exterminate Maori. If it was actually case, I would expect a case being raised at the ICJ and massive international attention. Even with the wars going on, a western democracy that is part of various international alliances going from very liberal to hard fascist in less that a year, would cause massive international attention.
Nobody is thinking the government wants to commit mass murder of Maori like Israel is doing in Gaza. What people are saying is that the government wants to erase the Maori culture and language. This is of course a huge task and they won't be able to do it in one shot or even one term so they are doing everything they can this term and if they are given additional terms they can continue that work.
I do think you're right, it's all theatre and they don't actually believe what they're saying.
It does make it difficult to take them seriously though.
As a minor party, they need to do something to pull attention to themselves and the issues they care about.
But you are correct, there is a fine balance between getting attention for the issues you care about and becoming a parody of yourself.
Ask yourself the question, would we be discussing this and thinking about these issues if they had been less extreme?
would we be discussing this and thinking about these issues if they had been less extreme?
If they had been less extreme, we'd be discussing the message, not the messenger.
Maybe. Or would it just fly under the radar of public consciousness?
I think this particular instance has moved into the parody territory. But it is so easy to miss the mark, what gets reported on is not decided by what issues we care about, but by what will generate interest.
You are discussing the messenger, everybody in this thread is discussing the message. That's because you are obsessed with identity politics.
You always bring up the messenger and ignore the message. No-one else here does that so regularly.
This is why formal logic should be taught in schools. Saying that the way the messenger gets their message across is the reason to ignore the message is the very definition of Ad Hominem.
The message was that the government is trying to exterminate Maori, did you not read the article?
If you think that's the message TPM is trying to get across, then you are dumber than I gave you credit.
That is literally what they said.
It's not a particularly nuanced statement in the first place, is it?
You know full well what their intent is with this rhetoric. You know full well the point they are trying to raise. The fact that you insist on arguing about the messenger and tone of message shows you don't want to engage with the problem being raised in good faith.
don't want to engage with the problem being raised in good faith.
Do you think TPM is engaging in good faith with a statement like that?
I don't care about the tone, I don't think they are serious, I think they are using hyperbole to bring attention to the issue. They are a minor party, I doubt we would be talking about it otherwise.
I am capable of engaging in the discussion without focussing only on the tone of message and dismissing everything else.
I think they are using hyperbole to bring attention to the issue.
Many people would consider that acting in bad faith.
They obviously don't, because you're literally the only one here trying to argue the messenger and not the message.
You're a strange fellow.
It's not like you guys would take them seriously if they didn't say it. You didn't take them seriously before this statement, you won't take them seriously after this statement. They are not talking to you. You are unreachable to them. You have already made up your mind about the Maori in this country.
Maybe a bit hyperbolic but I think the hyperbole is necessary given the current government's war on Maori.
No nuance with you huh?
It's not a particularly nuanced statement in the first place, is it?
Hmm, sync posted the reply as a top level comment. Weird.
