this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2024
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A little admiration of how easy UI customization is on Firefox, and how shitty Chromium looks.

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[–] alyxbond 1 points 14 hours ago

If you've never used Wireshark to monitor Firefox's network traffic, you're probably unaware of just how much data the browser sends back home.

While many people sing Firefox’s praises, they often overlook the less transparent aspects of its operations. Let me give you the unfiltered truth about Firefox: while it's better than most browsers, it’s not as private as many claim. Firefox has questionable financial backing, and it also assigns unique IDs to each installation, which can be a privacy concern.

Firefox is constantly calling home. If you run Wireshark while browsing, you'll see just how much data it sends—both to Firefox’s own servers and to third-party services. From basic OCSP requests to communications with Firefox servers and analytics companies, Firefox is in constant contact with external sources. Even after disabling most settings and configurations to limit data collection, the calls persist.

Sure, other browsers engage in similar behavior—but not Ungoogled Chromium. That's why I stick with it. I prefer to avoid software that needs to report back every time I use it. My setup includes Ungoogled Chromium, combined with privacy tools like uBlock Origin, Decentraleyes, ClearURLs, and a few other privacy extensions.

Feel free to downvote this post if you disagree, but I felt it was important to share. If you’ve just had the eye-opening realization that Firefox isn't as private as you thought, I’m sorry for any mental whiplash. Just remember: privacy matters.

And as a quick side note, if you're serious about boosting your privacy or even growing your Instagram followers, there are better alternatives that don’t require constant tracking.

[–] [email protected] 242 points 8 months ago (10 children)

Personally I find it far more important that it's not run by a company that will try its hardest to track your every movement on the web, but to each their own, I suppose.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

You never tried to listen for stock Firefox's traffic with Wireshark for sure.

People speak very good thing about Firefox but they like to hide and avoid the shady stuff. Let me give you the un-cesored version of what Firefox really is. Firefox is better than most, no double there, but at the same time they do have some shady finances and they also do stuff like adding unique IDs to each installation.

Firefox does is a LOT of calling home. Just fire Wireshark alongside it and see how much calling home and even calling 3rd parties it does. From basic ocsp requests to calling Firefox servers and a 3rd party company that does analytics they do it all, even after disabling most stuff in Settings and config like the OP did.

I know other browsers do it as well, except for Ungoogled and because of that I’m sticking with it. I would like to avoid programs that need no snitch whenever I open them. ungoogled-chromium + ublock origin + decentraleyes + clearurls and a few others.

Now you’re free to go ahead and downvote this post as much as you would like. I’m sorry for the trouble and mental break down I may have caused by the sudden realization that Firefox isn’t as good and private after all.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I think librewolf scrubs most of that stuff out. I'm basing that off of using burpsuite's proxy server though. On vanilla firefox it captures so much crap going out. I havent tried with wireshark though.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (4 children)

That's all true, but why take a modified chromium instead of a modified Firefox?

Also clearurls and decentraleyes would be pretty much useless with Firefox and uBlock Origin.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Chromium-based browsers have inherently weaker extensions due to Manifest v3 and many other targeted attacks on adblockers. If you want a browser that works far better and provides a much higher level of privacy, use Mullvad Browser (worked on in collaboration with the Tor Browser, just without Tor integration) or LibreWolf. Both are Firefox forks with Firefox telemetry removed and anti-fingerprinting measures. You don't need and absolutely should not install any extensions beyond the default installed in those 2 browsers (except perhaps a password manager), as that will dramatically damage the fingerprinting protection they provide. Both will have a much higher level of protection than you could ever realistically expect from any Chromium-based Browser.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes but no. Firefox does some creepy stuff, and I will need to verify this. But it also matters how much data websites get about you, and Ungoogled Chromium has no fingerprint protection

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

Firefox is better than most, no double there, but at the same time they do have some shady finances

So I went ahead and read that article and goodness gracious, does anybody actually read these links??? Because that link is a complete nothingburger. It's a blog post from someone who never read a 990 before (standard nonprofit disclosure form) who thinks every other line of is proof of a scandal. But it's not, it's just a big word salad that is too long to read, so nobody will bother.

The most significant charge is (1) that the CEO makes too much and (2) the author doesn't like that they contract out work to consultants who think diversity is good. Every point made, so far as I can tell:

  • Have assets worth $1.1 billion as of 2021
  • Mozilla spent less on "expenses" from 2021 relative to 2020
  • Revenue went up over the same time
  • A lot of revenue was from royalties (e.g. agreements for default search)
  • They disagree with the wording on a donate form about whether Mozilla "relies" on individual donations
  • The CEO made $5.6MM
  • They pulled out one expense, which appears to have been training/education relating to social justice topics
  • They pull out a few more individual expenses and weren't sure what they were.

This isn't secret documents being handed to Deep Throat in a dark parking lot. There's no smoking gun, no smoke, just a PDF with ordinary tables of expenses and revenue, and consultants who did diversity training. If that's shady then, get ready to be mad about every non-profit ever.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I will never understand how people expect software to gather no telemetry or metrics whatsoever.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We did fine without it for a very long time. We still do with a lot of software. It's called voluntarily submitting a bug report and/or core dump.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If you ask a user to show you a "core dump" they're more likely to shit on their floor and send you a photo than do what you actually mean.

Telemetry is absolutely crucial in determining what to focus on in development, to fix issues the users might not even realize exist. Especially for projects that aim at the general public. As long as it's communicated clearly, used truly only for development purposes and an opt-out is available there's nothing wrong about it.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

Especially software with hundreds of millions of users, that constantly has to deal with bleeding edge attack vectors and compatibility.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Firefox is better than most, no double there, but at the same time they do have some shady finances.

I'm not going to refute this because it seems to me that article are right in several points. Also, we have to be honest, Mozilla is kind of stupid sometimes.

But if you care about the default search engine or privacy settings, you really just need to do some hardening and tweaks to make it very private in general. Chromium doesn't have any of these settings, it even doesn't have RFP btw.

and they also do stuff like adding unique IDs to each installation.

Looks like you can download Firefox through the Mozilla's official HTTP/FTP repository that doesn't trigger this ID token generation. Also this article motivates people to download Firefox installer from Softonic's page:

Firefox users who prefer to download the browser without the unique identifier may do so in the following two ways:

  1. Download the Firefox installer from Mozilla's HTTPS repository (formerly the FTP repository).
  2. Download Firefox from third-party download sites that host the installer, e.g., from Softonic.

Softonic have a really nice and privacy respectful privacy policy (obviously that's not the case) in contrast with randomized pretty anonymous unique ID triggered by Firefox installer download. Mozilla's generated ID feels more like a download counter than a tracker indeed.

I'm not trying to justify the Mozilla's problems. They makes silly things sometimes, but being realistic, they do a better job taking care of their users privacy more than Google or even Brave.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 58 points 8 months ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (11 children)

When I was running it every other website would break, switched over to Mullvad Browser instead.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Except Firefox’s bookmark system on android is absolute crap and looks hideous.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago (14 children)

Mobile browsers all suck.

What is your alternative? I want E2EE sync. Is vivaldi better? But honestly I wouldnt use their browser.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I actually started using Firefox in my early teens just because I liked the look of the Ui and themes better than Chrome.

I've also recently switched to Librewolf ;)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I started using it in my early 20s when it was still called "Firebird" because I was still salty that Netscape was dead and using IE sucked donkey balls (There was stuff like Konqueror and Lynx on Linux, but Konqueror and Lynx were...well they were Konqueror and Lynx). Mozilla 4 lyfe. "Technically" (with huge quotation marks) I've been more or less using the same browser since 1997.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

Source: One person's opinion on their personal Fediverse account

... Not that I disagree, mind. I've been on FF since like. 2007? Which was the moment I figured out that other web browsers besides IE7 existed?

Never saw reason to hop to Chrome(ium) even before I knew/cared about datamining or enshittification or any of that stuff. Back then it just looked like "another browser, that does things a bit different but has no features that entice me that Firefox lacks". Then as I learned about the political side of things I was like "Huh, guess I'm glad for myself then!"

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago

You know that famous The Dude meme? Applies here.

Not a chrome fan and I use Librewolf and I like how I've customised it. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

i love firefox but honestly right now i find edge to be much more aesthetically pleasing, especially with vertical tabs and grouping. if firefox can add these two items, i'd switch to firefox in a heartbeat (and they're already adding tab groups)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Somewhere in this thread is a userchrome.css file on how to remove the "tree style tabs" header bar.

Install that addon.

Place that file in ~/.mozilla/firefox/XXXX-default-release/chrome as UserChrome.css (create that folder).

Enable legacy customization in about:config

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