I thought any EU member can cross inner-EU borders freely? Seems like i am the same clueless german as the guys in the articleπ«
this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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I thought any EU member can cross inner-EU borders freely?
A citizen of an EU member has the right to freedom of movement of labor in the EU. However, people are required to show identity documents at the border and be checked if the member state is not in the Schengen Area.
Presently, Romania is not in the Schengen Area (and this is, in fact, a very politically-contentious situation in Romania, as the European Commission considers them to have fulfilled the requirements for over a decade, but they have been repeatedly blocked by other member states from entering, most-recently by Austria).
Same thing with the UK back when they were still members. Part of the EU, not part of Schengen, so you couldn't just walk off the eurostar without showing your passport. More checks when flying too, had to stay in the non-schengen zone of airports, etc.
Obviously, it's politically contentious in Romania, but I think most Europeans, just like these Germans, think it's stupid and counter-intuitive that Romania's not part of Schengen yet.
Without googling, I assume it's because somewhere like the Netherlands or Austria needs to placate the far right with symbolic nonsense, that causes Romanians unnecessary delays, and makes them feel like second tier Europeans.
Yeah, though in the UK's case, that would have been by choice, rather than because their entry had been repeatedly vetoed.
Also, related trivia for those not familiar (despite the fact that it's been the source of a whole lot of noise due to Brexit), the UK and Ireland have their own mini travel-without-being-stopped-for-identity-documents area, the Common Travel Area.
Without googling, I assume it's because somewhere like the Netherlands or Austria needs to placate the far right with symbolic nonsense, that causes Romanians unnecessary delays, and makes them feel like second tier Europeans.
That is my own impression.
That is not at least Austria's official justification.
There have been other people who have made other claims with varying degrees of justification. I have seen Romanians who feel that the veto has been aimed at disadvantaging their ports, as lack of Schengen Area membership is an unpredictable and sometimes-quite-long delay for trucks moving freight. I have also seen some Romanians talking about some demands for lumber concessions by Austria that Romania did not grant; these people felt that it was something of a shakedown. The fact that Croatia (with some similar issues) was given membership frequently is pointed out -- unlike Romania, Croatia is a popular holiday destination for Austrians, and Croatia not being in Schengen would be an inconvenience for Austrians, though arguably similar migrant issues would also apply to Croatia. Another point that is often raised is that some assertions by Austria as to Romania's membership causing migrant problems are based on a poorly-supported-and-likely-not-accurate claim by Austria about illegal migrant movements derived from monitoring mobile phones.
But whatever the case, it is something that I have seen a number of Romanians be quite upset about.
I will say that even if one takes Austria's official position at face value, it's that EU migration policy needs changes and that they're basically using the veto on Schengen as leverage to obtain those changes. That is, they aren't saying that Romania or Bulgaria have actually failed to hold up their end of the requirements. So I expect that even if a Romanian did agree that the official justification was the real reason, said Romanian probably wouldn't feel very sympathetic to the veto.
The biggest problem with the whole Austria thing is that a few months before, they were ok with Romania joining, officially they didn't have a thing to say. Then all of a sudden they went 180 degrees, so of course it raises a lot of eyebrows and a lot of theories appear.
So they found an "excuse" and started hammering about how many migrants cross the borders via Bulgaria/Romania and end up in Austria. When reporters asked them, ok but what about Croatia? At present time, the numbers of migrants sneaking via Croatia is significantly higher than from Bulgaria/Romania, why did you let them in Schengen? Their reply was almost always to change the subject or dodge the question.
Both Bulgaria/Romania fulfill all the requirements to join Schengen since 11 years now so yeah, take it as you want. Also, I don't have the numbers/articles anymore(it was in December last year and I deleted all my Reddit posts/comments) but the numbers brought by Austria regarding migrants was proved to be faaaaar away from the truth and they were artificially pumped.
it seems to me (as an austrian) that the underperforming ruling parties - especially the "conservativ" ΓΆvp - already started the silly season and that means thinly veiled racism is the rule because the conservatives want the right-wing votes. The sudden change could just be stupidity - the chancellor and his party are not made of the brightest because loyalty counts more atm. i sincerely believe they vetoed romania in the last moment and weren't even aware what was going on until then ...
It's 100% about the sinti and roma. Doubt anyone would want to inflict damage on Romanian ports.
Nope. Britain was in the EU and not in Schengen. Cue passport queues.
I think it's not "freely", as in someone has to check your ID. I could be wrong tho.
Checks are optional within Schengen, no one has to but can e.g. when Austria wants to check for illegal immigrants and sets up checkpoints at the border. Border crossings are often just rural roads where the road surface suddenly looks different and there are slightly different looking signs. On some there are still old customs buildings, especially crossings within cities but also no staff.
Even crossing out of the EU into Switzerland (Schengen), I have never been asked for documents. I have seen customs buildings but it's an open crossing and no one even standing there to check for anything when leaving the EU.
Yes but Romania is not in Schengen
For anyone interested, this seems to be the crossing in question: https://maps.app.goo.gl/8zYiW5s877R9nSuG8
I'm curious how they got into Romania in the first place. Did they not notice the border on their way there either?
Crossing unmanned border checkpoints when hiking or cycling is pretty common and was generally tolerated, at least in pre-Schengen Europe. There's also loads of abandonded border crossings similar to this, even between Schengen states.
I'm also not so sure wether they were actually unaware of the rules - it looks like the next border crossing is 20km away, maybe they just didn't want to take the detour.
It takes a bit more than that to stop a German on a bike
Iβm curious how they got into Romania in the first place. Did they not notice the border on their way there either?
Why would there be an issue getting into Romania? The article doesnt mention if they were tourists staying in Romania or tourists staying in Hungary, but nevertheless if I would be at a border and a border guard asks for my ID I would just show it to them, especially at the airport. But if I am on a bike-ride and saw a border like this, within the EU, I would think nothing of it and go around it. I would never dream that inside of the EU crossing an unmanned border would be an issue
Because Romania is in the EU but it is not in Schengen, so you have to show your ID at the border EVERY TIME you enter/exit the country, same with Bulgaria.
If they would have crossed from Hungary to Austria, it would be no problem since both countries are in Schengen and no ID is necessary.
For this whole drama, the tourists can thank the Austrian gov since they vetoed Romania's entry into Schengen last year even tho they fulfill all the requirements to do so.
Yeah I understand what the problem is, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that as a tourist in an inside-EU-country I would not know that this is the case
I would also not conclude that I'm outside of the Schengen region when I have to show my ID at the border. It's really not unusual to have border-police check your ID inside the Schengen region, in fact its done quite a lot in some areas (in Germany for example when crossing from Austria to Bavaria). So I can totally understand why they just biked around it and didnt think further of it.
So they probably got into Romania like everyone else, by showing their ID at the Airport, but they didnt conclude from this that they are outside of the Schengen region.
It might be that English is not my first language but what I understand from your comment is that tourists should be ok for not knowing the laws when travelling between EU countries?
It's true, many people from the west don't think about Schengen, they take it for granted but businesses and to some extent normal people from Romania/Bulgaria suffer from not being in Schengen and nobody seems to slap Austria for this current situation.
From your comments I assume that you are Romanian? In that case I can see why you are surprised that tourists dont know about Romania not being part of Schengen.
For me, a German, I can only tell you that for us everything looks like EU and Schengen are an integral part.
At the Airport, we have two Gates:
"EU-Destination" and "Non-EU-Destination". "EU-Destination" Gates are the Schengen gates, but they are just named "EU-Destination". To be honest, I don't know which gates to take when travelling to Romania. Especially as a German, we are surrounded by EU and Schengen countries, there is no border that has a non-Schengen border crossing. I live very close to the border and I cross it weekly. For me, an EU border is nothing I ever think about not crossing. Because of all of that, when I travel inside the EU, I never check about border rules. It's for me one of the great benefits of the EU, that I can just go wherever I want to go without a single care. I hated COVID because of all the different laws while travelling.
Only from your post, I now know that Romania is not part of Schengen. If I would book a vacation in Romania, I would just google "Is Romania part of EU", it shows me a few articles about Romania joining EU in 2007 and I would not look further into it. I think it's reasonable to assume that Romania is part of Schengen because of it being in EU.
But I totally agree with you. It sucks that you are denied Schengen status over and over again. It generally sucks that nobody slaps anyone in foreign politics for their racist remarks in EU. Fuck Austria for denying you Schengen status. I hope you'll get it soon!
Yes your assumption is right. However, I kinda know the story from both sides, Schengen and non-Schengen because I have a dual-citizenship(Gude π). Maybe that's why for me is "not normal" and I pay attention to this but yes, I know what you mean with the airports.
What I meant is that as a tourist in an inside-EU-country I would not know that this is the case
I never said that they should be treated as innocent! I just wanted to shed light on what their thought-process while crossing this border was.
What I mean it doesn't matter you know or you don't know. If you get caught, the law treat you the same.
That's not really true.
Intent is a very important aspect of guilt. Might be f.e. be the difference between murder and manslaughter
Yeah and thats totally fine. But this comment thread (from my side) never was about the juristic side of that story but only about the thought-process of those people on their bikes.
What is even the point of the road with a concrete block like that? Or is it supposed to be a temporary checkpoint or something like that?
One side, or both, temporarily, closed the border crossing in case, for an undetermined period of time. They set down those blocks so people don't simply open the gate and cross as they please (which they probably did before, even in case the bar wasn't permanently standing upright anyway). Could be that they, in effect, just blocked it for personal travelers and commercial cargo vehicles, as it seems to me that tractor drivers or other locals just tend to go around it from time to time.
There's lots of these little country roads in Europe which cross borders and never had real toll buildings, perhaps just a small booth or maybe never even that, only those red-white tollgate bars and a guard. But, since the creation of the Schengen area, it became common for crossings like these to never having been serviced by border personnel ever again...
Many of those rural streets and their crossings however, despite traversing factually open borders for ages, are just allowed for β yes, legal to use by, for crossing into the neighboring country β people who live in that area! Or rather: for cars with regional license plates.
I don't know if that was the situation or what the deal was there before they put down these concrete blocks, but with the shift towards rightwing ideology all across Europe, the push for faschist bs and "concerns about immigration practices" whathaveyou, it doesn't surprise me at all that they did.
Because keeping illegals out is easier that way. Or something. It would scare voters / the peopleβ’ if they/we didn't! I'm pretty sure this came out of some politician's promises. Yay! /s
Besides big roads the border is basically not visible.
I wonder if/when humans will realize that they all live on one planet together
Probably about the time murder is non existent
care to explain how to relate these things?
Murder is when open border.
You think people are going to kill each other when there are no borders separating them? Do you have some research on that?
Just making fun of OP here, I don't think there is any logical connection unless you're racist.
I'm pretty sure you overthink a comment that was just another way of saying "when hell freezes over".
Yes, absolutely possible.
TIL Romania is not in Schengen
Those must be some of the 3 million illegal immigrants going through Bulgaria and Romania on their way to Austria. Did they pay β¬50 to cross by any chance?